sixgunner455
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I don't think my 11 is ugly, not at all. It is plain, it is simple - it is elegant in its simplicity, really.
Savage Accuracy fact or myth?
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corncob
Member
I bought a left-handed 11F in 308 when buds was selling the last of last years models off really cheap. It strung really bad--from the first shot. I had the local guy cut the barrel down to 17 inches, and it shoots the lights out now. One moa with BROWN BEAR. Loud though. Light as a feather and ugly as home made sin.
It's a great gun, even though the action its a little rough. I got a VX3 1.75-6 and Talley one piece mounts. Works like a rifle.
I don't buy the savage accuracy legend though. At least not with sporter barrels.
It's a great gun, even though the action its a little rough. I got a VX3 1.75-6 and Talley one piece mounts. Works like a rifle.
I don't buy the savage accuracy legend though. At least not with sporter barrels.
Txhillbilly
Member
The only targets I have pics of are load testing targets,so there are some that aren't up to your standards,but I have more good loads than bad.
Savage 12FLVSS pre-Accutrigger. 1st target with Weaver Classic Extreme 6-24x50 scope.
Txhillbilly
Member
Savage 110FLP 25/06
Txhillbilly
Member
Savage 10FCP 308
Kachok
Member
If Savage accuracy is a myth it has had me fooled for a long time.
Your sig line is right on Kachok. My LRPV is an 11 pound rifle before the scope went on. It isn't a hunting rifle. It's a varmint rifle. It's built for the shooter to set up and pick off those pesky critters we don't want around from about any reasonable distance. I just got home about an hour ago. When I walked in the house my wife was right behind me and she was freaking because the local coyote population made a run through my yard again. I'll get those suckas soon enough. I just need to get time to warn the neighbors why I might be shooting at night. I have the lights I need, the rifle I need and the audio player I need. I just need a good coyote call to play and some bait.
I think it's a myth. I find that the Vanguard S2 and Tikka rifles will outshoot them all day long. They are mediocre, generally speaking. There have been at least 2 accuracy reviews but magazines in the last couple of months where the Savages came in near the bottom of the pile.
They're not inaccurate. There are simply more accurate options for the same money. I think even the Marlins were putting them in their place.
I don't have any experience with the marlins but I do with Tika, Sako, and Weatherby and they're all more accurate - not to mention other obvious advantages.
They're not inaccurate. There are simply more accurate options for the same money. I think even the Marlins were putting them in their place.
I don't have any experience with the marlins but I do with Tika, Sako, and Weatherby and they're all more accurate - not to mention other obvious advantages.
You weren't addressing me but I'll answer.
It's the Dec 12-Jan 13 issue of Field and Stream. As a matter of fact, they did NOT use an Axis. They were using the 11 Trophy Hunter XP. That's the model 11 action with accutrigger.
It competed against Howa, Vanguard S2, TC Venture, Marlin X7, and Ruger American.
It lost.
Their comments:
MSRP: $675
Real-World Price: About $520-$540
Average Group 1.455"
Smallest Group: .713"
"Savage says it puts its money into accuracy, not looks, and true to form the Model 11 is an unlovely thing. Its magazine would snap into place only after an argument, and its trigger was good but too light for my liking. The average test group was O.K., but the individual groups were inconsistent, ranging from sub-MOA to all over the place. The street price barely makes our "about $500 cutoff, but it comes with a scope."
Now all of that said, they're all under 1.5 MOA and fine hunting rifles. I've owned 7 now and currently own 2. All were defective from the factory in some way. Some major, some minor. They don't really inspect their guns before shipping. Not really. I remember the rep at shot show 2012 bragging that each savage rifle is only touched by human hands for less than 3 minutes. He was obviously excited about that from the point of view of making money. Seems like an odd thing to brag about to your customers...
In my personal experience, savage rifles have horrible quality control issues with horrible fit and finish.
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Hangingrock
Member
If people like to shoot small groups from the bench rest and they derive pleasure from that experience then fine I guess. Cooper said more or less in so many words that the bench rest shooting was the worst thing that has happened to marksmanship in his viewpoint.
The rifle ranges I usually frequent seldom seen are those individuals that stand up and shoot. My point is that a two minute of angle rifle is in reality perfectly fine when consideration is given that most individual marksmen aren’t up to the capability of the rifle shooting from field positions.
The rifle ranges I usually frequent seldom seen are those individuals that stand up and shoot. My point is that a two minute of angle rifle is in reality perfectly fine when consideration is given that most individual marksmen aren’t up to the capability of the rifle shooting from field positions.
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Certaindeaf
member
^
Hickok45 rings his steel about as good with a .380 pocket gun etc as with about any rifle.
Hickok45 rings his steel about as good with a .380 pocket gun etc as with about any rifle.
cal30_sniper
Member
Although I agree with your premise, I think having a rifle as accurately as possible is a big benefit. You are correct about the benchrest rifles, they are good for punching paper, long range stationary varmint shooting, and hunting from a blind.
I'm one of those people you see shooting offhand, kneeling, and unsupported prone at the range. With a good sporter profile rifle that shoots sub MOA, I can hold ~2MOA kneeling and 3-4MOA offhand. Now, If you were to hand me the same rifle, but with only 2MOA accuracy to begin with, it would double my group size kneeling, and put me out to 5-6MOA offhand. Firing offhand, that's the difference in hitting my target at 200 yards, and missing. Then again, if you were to hand me a heavy barrel rifle in a benchrest style stock, I'd be all over the place. There's a tradeoff, and I think the Savage fills that niche very well (at least the ones that I own do). Even if someone isn't a very good shot, a less accurate rifle still has the potential of making it even worse.
Kachok
Member
Funny that you should say that because the last accuracy comparison I saw the Savage outshot everything and this was a contest where three of each rifle was tested. The 114 outshot the CZ 550, the Winchester 70, the Ruger 77 Hawkeye, Remington 700 and the Browning X-Bolt. (Sorry no Tikka, Sako or Weatherby I would have like to see then too) While it won at the range it took second place in the overall because the writers liked features of the Model 70 better.
I can vouch for Tikka/Sako Accuracy, but not Weatherby, never owned one, I went to the gun store several times to buy one but the raised comb stock and squared corners was always weird enough to make me look at something else, love the action but the rifle does not fit me
I heard they are coming out with a youth model that might fit smaller shooters like myself.
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rifleman14
Member
I had a Savage model 116 stainless steel pencil barrel hunting rifle a couple years back, chambered in 30-06. Had to have gone through a hundred different handloads consisting of many different bullet, powder, and casing combinations, a dozen different factory loads, two different good quality scope/ring setups, and three different experienced shooters including myself....and that dang thing would never group anything tighter than 2" at 100 yards. Sure, it would be in a good mood on some days and get an inch and a half group here and there, but it was never consistent. Average groups ranged from 2" to upwards of 4" at 100 yards. I free floated the barrel, inspected the bore over and over again only to find it spotless and looking like new every time....just wasted a whole lot of time in general. Don't think I'll ever own another savage lol
idcurrie said:
This has been my experience and I won't buy another Savage until Savage makes a change in this area. My Weather Warrior arrived defective as did my neighbors. So what if some or most Savage rifles are accurate, there are a number of other manufacturers making rifles that are equally accurate with a lot more attention to detail, look better, feel better and work better. They'll be getting my business ... for now anyway.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Over the last dozen years, the consensus among all posters on the subject of the Savage rifles has been that for the money, they rank high in the accuracy department. They do as well as many rifles costing hundreds of dollars more.
Beyond that? It's a rifle against rifle individual deal.
Beyond that? It's a rifle against rifle individual deal.
sixgunner455
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Amen, Art. My 11 in .243 shoots very well, for a light barrel inexpensive hunting rifle. Doesn't even have an Accutrigger. I don't have any stacks of 5 shot, 3-5 group target sheets, but handloads have always shot sub-MOA. Maybe next time I go to the range, I'll bring a couple boxes of handloads and give it a try.
I read that F&S article, too. Kind of struck me that perhaps they did the same thing I did when I first got my rifle - the magazine goes in smoothly one way, and gets bound up or doesn't seat fully if you do it any other way. I've seen a couple of other guys do the same thing.
I read that F&S article, too. Kind of struck me that perhaps they did the same thing I did when I first got my rifle - the magazine goes in smoothly one way, and gets bound up or doesn't seat fully if you do it any other way. I've seen a couple of other guys do the same thing.
Kachok
Member
Anyone that still thinks Savage accuracy is a myth is more then welcome to come shoot with me sometime, I live right next door to Styx River Shooting center. My 06 is just your basic Wal-Mart special, and it shoots below MOA with 150gr Accutips and RL19, my Model 11 270 WSM touches holes with 130gr SGKs and IMR4350. Neither of these have any fancy Accustock or any aftermarket tweaks except for scopes, bases, and rings. Never put any "match" bullets through them only hunting bullets. If Savage was bad about making duds I think I would have run into one of them by now I have owned six of them over the years, and all have been tighter shooting then my 700s, my Browning, or my older Model 70s (though the new one is pretty dang good) I try not to question the shooting skill of people who say Savages are poor shooters but I will question their reloading skills, I have seen a Savage that simply would not shoot factory ammo, but with handloads would rip the X ring off the target. (liked it's bullets seated near max COL)
Savage in general is a reloaders gun, if you want something that you can dump any ol Power Point into and still have it shoot good get yourself a Tikka or Sako. They shoot trash like it was gold plated
Savage in general is a reloaders gun, if you want something that you can dump any ol Power Point into and still have it shoot good get yourself a Tikka or Sako. They shoot trash like it was gold plated
I have an early 90's Savage 110 in 30.06 with no AccuTrigger that I can shoot 2-3 MOA standing. I have shot lots of groups of 6" or less at 200 yards standing with no support at all. That's the way I learned to shoot and we laughed at anyone shooting from a rest at anything closer than 300 yards. It's not that we didn't know you could shoot more accurately that way. It's just that we knew that in order to kill game you not only had to be able to shoot standing or sitting of kneeling or whatever but you also had to be able to hit game that was moving too.
Eventually I got old and health problems made me sit down to shoot often. I found it to be a satsifying pursuit of it's own but I would still count on my old skills if I had a bear charging me or whatever. Shooting off hand at a moving target is a lot different than shooting at paper targets with no reason to think dinner wouldn't be there if I missed. I like to do both and I see the value in both. What I also see is that most people hunt deer or whatever from a tree stand these days and that usually means shooting from a rest pretty often. In the old days we might see people climb trees to hunt deer but there were no stands to sit in. That was mainly because there were no deer to shoot at in those days anyway. I didn't see a lot of deer in my area until I was almost 35 years old. Now they're everywhere. So people can be more picky about their shots. You don't have to take a shot thinking you won't get another. Almost certainly you will these days.
So I don't knock people for shooting from a rest these days. There are still good reason to learn to shoot off hand but they aren't as important as they once were.
Eventually I got old and health problems made me sit down to shoot often. I found it to be a satsifying pursuit of it's own but I would still count on my old skills if I had a bear charging me or whatever. Shooting off hand at a moving target is a lot different than shooting at paper targets with no reason to think dinner wouldn't be there if I missed. I like to do both and I see the value in both. What I also see is that most people hunt deer or whatever from a tree stand these days and that usually means shooting from a rest pretty often. In the old days we might see people climb trees to hunt deer but there were no stands to sit in. That was mainly because there were no deer to shoot at in those days anyway. I didn't see a lot of deer in my area until I was almost 35 years old. Now they're everywhere. So people can be more picky about their shots. You don't have to take a shot thinking you won't get another. Almost certainly you will these days.
So I don't knock people for shooting from a rest these days. There are still good reason to learn to shoot off hand but they aren't as important as they once were.
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They run through your yard? Have you thought about trying land mines?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cee Zee
Your sig line is right on Kachok. My LRPV is an 11 pound rifle before the scope went on. It isn't a hunting rifle. It's a varmint rifle. It's built for the shooter to set up and pick off those pesky critters we don't want around from about any reasonable distance. I just got home about an hour ago. When I walked in the house my wife was right behind me and she was freaking because the local coyote population made a run through my yard again. I'll get those suckas soon enough. I just need to get time to warn the neighbors why I might be shooting at night. I have the lights I need, the rifle I need and the audio player I need. I just need a good coyote call to play and some bait.
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Last edited by Wolfsbane; Today at 06:12 AM.
I Seriously just fell off the Toilet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cee Zee
Your sig line is right on Kachok. My LRPV is an 11 pound rifle before the scope went on. It isn't a hunting rifle. It's a varmint rifle. It's built for the shooter to set up and pick off those pesky critters we don't want around from about any reasonable distance. I just got home about an hour ago. When I walked in the house my wife was right behind me and she was freaking because the local coyote population made a run through my yard again. I'll get those suckas soon enough. I just need to get time to warn the neighbors why I might be shooting at night. I have the lights I need, the rifle I need and the audio player I need. I just need a good coyote call to play and some bait.
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Last edited by Wolfsbane; Today at 06:12 AM.
I Seriously just fell off the Toilet
Sav .250
Member
I own a Savage 110 in 243 cal. It`s an early 60`s model. "Fact or fiction?" Fact from the get go!
I just love how out of touch city people are with reality. It's really funny to hear the stuff they think. I have about 4 acres of yard here and 10 acres of property. I have photos of these coyotes captured with my game camera (crappy as it may be). They were taken at the barn behind my house which is maybe 150 yards away. They have a den in that barn most likely because they run back to that spot often.
But you feel free to think you know something about living in the country. I can use a good laugh from time to time. Heck coyotes are invading cities too. But I doubt you'll see any from your mom's basement.
Mines not ugly...Then again its an old 116...with a NightForce NXS 8132x56, bipod and new cheek rest...so kinda cant say its out of the box...but even when I first got it, the stainless with black stock is beautiful
When I bought it (used)...with my Mark II .22LR, which was insanely accurate out of the box.
cmb3366
Member
My take on Savage is that given their price and availability, a heavy barreled Savage is often the most accurate rifle many people have had the opportunity to shoot. I hear about them all the time at my range, and I think it is more a lack of exposure to different rifles than any true bias. I can say that I have offered a few Savage/ accutrigger and a few Cooper proponents who claim their rifle is more accurate than they are the chance to send some rounds through my Stiller 30br heavy gun with 1.5oz Jewell. All I can say is that shooting a rifle that actually aggs in the .2's is a real eye opener for them.
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