Savage accuracy problem

[pcf]

-Check the scope ring and base screws.
-Check the stock screws.
-Check the crown for any little nicks, dings or scratches.
-Do you have a solid and consitent cheek weld? Close you eyes, shoulder the rifle. Open your eyes. Do you have a good sight picture or do you need to adjust? Figure what adjustments you need to make to get a good cheek weld. Poor cheek weld can shotgun pattern a group.
-Before you shoot next time run two or three dry patches through the bore to clean out any oil.
-Shoot from a solid bench and sit on a solid chair or stool. Wobbly bench and/or chair can shotgun pattern a group.
Sandbags under the forearm and buttstock help, it's much easier to make adjustments to get the rifle on target with sandbags than trying to muscle it over with your hands.
-Sometimes we have bad days at the range and there's no good explanation for why, just take a break and try again later, and magically everything improves.

 

[USSR]

pcf,

This is a guy who

using open sights, I can hit clay birds most of the time at 250 yards, shooting from a rest.

, so I think we can eliminate shooter error at the bench as the problem.

Don

 

[the naked prophet]

This is a guy who
Quote:
using open sights, I can hit clay birds most of the time at 250 yards, shooting from a rest.

, so I think we can eliminate shooter error at the bench as the problem.

Not necessarily. This is my first scoped rifle, and sometimes I have trouble getting in the right position to use the scope. I try to get a consistent cheek weld, and thought I was doing okay.

Hitting the clay birds was with my wife's Bushmaster, loading one round and ejecting the magazine, and then resting the rifle on a bag. I have fired thousands of rounds through rifles with open sights - less than 20 through scoped centerfire rifles (maybe 50 rounds through scoped .22 rifles borrowed at the range).

I'm perfectly willing to accept advice for my shooting techniques that may differ from iron sights to scoped shooting from a rest.

 

[rockstar.esq]

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your rifle. I am one of the countless Savage owners that usually sings the praise of their precision. I'm less likely to suggest that the stock is so much of a problem unless you've monkeyed with it. One point that hasn't been brought up so far is that you might be experiencing a transistionary flinch associated with the Savage having a single stage trigger vs the two stage type common to AR style rifles. I have a friend who shoots considerable better with a slightly heavier trigger pull than my 10fp which is adjusted down to 1.5lbs. I think the model you have adjusts down to a minimum 2.5lbs which is roughly half what many other rifles at the store come with. Another thought that occurs to me is that the ergonomics of the AR are completely different from that of the savage. After trying other types of ammo I'd suggest that you have a friend load the magazine for you with one of the rounds being a snap cap. This will likely lead to diagnosing if you are applying any torque to the rifle or if you've a flinch as I suggested earlier. Final thought. I once read an article written by some kind of master rifle shot who opined that the shooters body must be alligned properly behind the rifle as there is a "natural point of aim" that will work against you until your body AND your sights are working together. I have found this to be significant in seated position primarily, however it stands to reason that similar issues might be in play at the bench.

 

[blackguns]

I also need to defend the general accuracy of the savage.

I mean there can be a lemon in any group or make of rifle but my 10FP in .308 is a .5 -.75 minute rifle if I'm having a good day.

I will say that it improved drastically after about 200 rounds, well something improved(it may have been me). I can also vouch for the 168 gr matchkings. This thing loves'em, right around 2500 ft/s in a 26 inch barrel.

Not sure if that translates to the 06 cartridge but same caliber same speed?

If this continues without improvement I would tear that thing down! Take it right out of the stock, pulll the scope/base/rings and start over. Loctite everything on re-assembly and head for the range. Check that barrel nut as well, never heard of a loose one but something is definety wrong here.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Simple accuracy solution: Buy some match ammo loaded with 168gr Sierras, Noslers or Hornadys. Solves that problem easily!

As for recoil vs. bullet impact: Recoil does indeed start at the moment of ignition. We're talking fractions of split seconds here, I'm sure, but it DOES occur. Why would my revolver print to 3 different points of aim with 3 different loads where the only difference is bullet speed? Recoil and dwell time! Slower load = longer dwell time in the barrel = higher exit as the muzzle rises = higher impact.

 

[GunDog44]

mine shot the same way until I had about 60 - 80 rounds through it.
The Savage barrels are a little rough out of the box. Give it time, make sure your scope is secure and be patient. this group is after about 80 rounds, while I shoot about .7 moa now. My 12FV was the same way, took time to get to .3 moa.

 

[hps1]

The most likely solution(s) to your problem has already been stated above; you just have to sort it out.

First off, recoil, as has been stated, does affect the impact of the bullet. The rifle begins to recoil the instant the charge is ignited and the muzzle will rise differently, dependant upon how firmly the rifle is held. That is one reason that no one can correctly sight in your rifle for you, as no two people hold a rifle exactly the same. Shooting the national match course of fire calls for shooting offhand (no sling), sitting and prone (w/sling). When firing the 100 yard reduced coarse, using a relatively heavy target rifle (30-06) and same ammo, my sight settings had to be adjusted to compensate for the free recoil (offhand,no sling) to the sitting/prone (restricted recoil w/sling).

Recoil affects even heavy .22 rimfire rifles. I shot prone rimfire matches for years with a 16# rifle w/20X scope and you can see the rifle recoil in the scope with standard velocity rounds every shot.

Proper bench shooting technique (as is the case with any type of accurate shooting) is extremely important in shooting good groups. Some shooters hold the rifle firmly, others let it lay loosely on the bags. Either technique works, but uniformity is the key word, paying particular attention to the following points: (1) Place the front bag under forearm (not barrel) and clear of the sling swivel studs so forearm can recoil freely. Some prefer to rest their hand between the bag and forend; if this works for you that is fine. Shooting the sharp kicking rifles such as 375 h&h and up, this technique helps in holding the rifle down, which I find to reduce group size. Lighter rifles such as the '06, I personally like to let rest on the bags and free recoil. (2) Place a bag under rear of stock, also clear of sling swivel stud, adjust elevation by moving this bag front or rear. The butt resting on the bench is a real no-no. (3) Cheek pressure on the stock must be uniform and placement of your eye must be exactly the same from shot to shot, paying close attention to eye relief and centering the ocular lens. (I wear progressive bifocals and find that one of the biggest problems I encounter in shooting good groups is that the recoil tends to cause my glasses to slip a bit which opens the group lookin through a slightly different prescription. This is especially true on the heavy kickers). (4) Natural aim point. Do not hold the rifle on the target, let it "rest" on the target. As has been previously mentioned, align your sights, then close your eyes a moment; when you open your eyes the rifle should still be perfectly aligned. If not, you are holding the rifle on the target; reposition the bags and repeat until the rifle lays on target. (5) Butt position on shoulder and how firmly butt is against shoulder must be exactly same from shot to shot.

In other words, uniformity of position, etc. is of prime importance.

Good ammo is also extremely important and some rifles are much more finicky than others in this regard. Try a couple of other brands of ammo before trying more exotic/expensive fixes.

While the Savage plastic stocks are not very attractive, unless pressing unevenly on the barrel, are not too likely to be the problem IMHO. I have a 338 WM and an FP 10 in .223; both will shoot sub moa in their tupperware furniture.

If all above fails, then you can delve further into scope, mounts and bedding.

Good luck, let us know what you find.

Regards,
hps

 

[Red Tornado]

Upate? You've had all weekend and we're dying to know if you solved the problem.
RT

 

[the naked prophet]

This weekend was occupied fixing up storm-ravaged houses in St. Louis. Or, at least one house. Okay, maybe just the mother-in-law's yard. But hey, there was a great barbecue, I got to hang out with my in-laws (who are actually pretty cool) and go to some cool shops near St. Louis, like a Scotch-Irish store and such (I'm a Scottish Cherokee Redneck who married an Irish Cherokee City Girl - a match made in heaven!). I'll probably shoot some time this week with an update.

 

[BoySetsTheFire]

I'm also interested in your reply. Last week, our range officer shot sub-MOA with his new 110. He did have a $900 scope and was shooting his own handloads of .308 (39 grains powder). He kept 10 shots within the x-ring at 100 yards. Made me wanna go out and buy one.