Saw my first open carry yesterday

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Don't think you presence is going to automatically stop something. To those of you who think that open carry will dissuade the felon, I'd like you to talk to the widow of one of our officers who was carrying in a bank. The suspect saw him, walked out of the teller line and up behind him, and put one into his head, then initiated his robbery of the bank.

If a suspects already committed to an armed felony that will see him spend the next ten years locked up, why not just use you as the starting point? He’ll probably get a better gun out of it anyhow…
 
Open carry.....yeah it shows your armed. It can or could deter the idiot, crook, criminal, as they are usually, cowards and won't confront or if they do, when you stand up for your self and call their bluff they back down. (bullies from school that never grew out of it?) For crackheads (Zombies) or etc, I like carrying concealed. Open carry keeps the honest man honest and concealed keeps the crackheads guessing WTH is really going on , as if they need help with that...LMAO
Also if man was not supposed to open carry, God would have made him with a pouch like a kangaroo to carried concealed. Historically man has always carried some sort of weapon foe self defense......and we need to now more then ever....some little boys see dead people, I on the other hand see idiots and they are every where.....you do too, you know who their are....don't be shy.
 
gk2410 said:
Don't think you presence is going to automatically stop something. To those of you who think that open carry will dissuade the felon, I'd like you to talk to the widow of one of our officers who was carrying in a bank. The suspect saw him, walked out of the teller line and up behind him, and put one into his head, then initiated his robbery of the bank. If a suspects already committed to an armed felony that will see him spend the next ten years locked up, why not just use you as the starting point? He’ll probably get a better gun out of it anyhow….
Yes this is a possibility. This it is unfortunate for sure. As a "cop" we need to beware, and realize this can happen, we are targets! Also we are trained. Your never in the "white" (Always yellow or higher!) In this day and age you need your head on a swivel and not let your guard down. You can do this with out supporting all the new "Gestapo" ideals and ideas, as our job is or was "TO PROTECT AND SERVE". More educated and law abiding citizens would step up, "IF" we would empower them and let them, EDUCATION? We as a society need to get our heads out of our.... and work with each other. Where was his partner or his back up or??? Where is a cop when you need one?
This is a situation just like when the planes were over run with box cutters as the good guys were unarmed. Still boggles my mind today, as I would not stand down for a box cutter? (I always though bank tellers should be MEN, big scary ones, and have guns! Bank robbery problem solved?) If WE have weapons, WE the good men and women can fight back. Stupid people will always act that way, we should expect nothing different.:banghead: Just like the scorpion and the frog!

Sad story, sorry to hear that. Sorry for your loss :( Our loss. Sad when a brother in blue is lost in the line of duty!
 
Posted by TITAN308: I hear far more about shady people turning around and leaving a place after seeing an OC weapon than I've heard the other end of the spectrum, which is about zero times.
Since the conditions that may lead to either happen so rarely, and since what you have heard about is only a small subset of what has actually happened over the years, a wise person will base his assessment on something else.

Such as thinking it through...

Either outcome can happen.

If a robber sees and armed citizen in an establishment before initiating action, he may choose to delay the plan or go elsewhere. Or he may not. One cannot know. Most reasonable persons would abort the robbery, but violent criminals do not often fall into that category.

If the robbery has already been initiated or cannot be aborted, an armed citizen who is noticed by the robber or by his tail gunner is obviously in grave danger. Don't ask me for a link. It's basic common sense. Talk to a senior police officer or two or three. I have.

These situations happen very, very rarely, but when they do happen, there will be one outcome or another. One cannot ignore conditional probabilities simply because the conditions that lead to one outcome or another rarely happen.

In my working life, statements such as "I've never heard of..." and "no one will ever..." used to be jokingly referred to as "famous last words", second in popularity only to "I'll be able to explain..." and "no jury will....".
 
Neither method of carry is superior than the other.

CC say being hidden gives them an advantage. OC says they can draw quicker. Blah blah blah the list goes on and on.

General Statement: Having an opinion is one thing, being willfully ignorant is something completely different.

With that said, not much more to say - so I'll step out of this thread.
 
Posted by TITAN308: [(In response to "..uncomfortable than standing in line with a visible weapon on my hip while people whom I cannot see and do not trust are standing behind me...")]Try wearing something better quality than an uncle mike's nylon holster if you are so paranoid about weapon retention. Also your lack of situational awareness is the problem, not the gun. Lots of OC's are trained to hold their elbow against the firearm when standing in things such as lines.
I think it is irresponsible to characterize concern about weapons retention as paranoia, unrealistic to believe that the utility of "situational awareness" is not very much impaired while standing in a qeue, and naive to believe that holding one's elbow against a firearm is an effective defense against a rabbit punch, a blow to the head, the stab of a knife, or worse.

If you want to delude yourself into believing that a good holster and some weapons retention training, though so very important, will make you safe in a bad place (I refer to a line in certain places) while you display for all to see a very desirable piece of useful and tradable hardware, be my guest.

Being attacked for the weapon is a major concern among police officers I know, even though they have other devices with which to handle an attacker, they are very well trained, and if it comes to that , they carry back-up guns. And maybe, just maybe, most perps are at least vaguely aware that an attack on an officer will put all of the officers in a fifty mile radius on their tails.

Neither method of carry is superior than the other.
The advantages of one over the other will depend upon circumstances, which vary.
 
Hello everyone, I've tryed posting a couple of times let's see if this works.
Ultimately this debate really shows more how far we've fallen as to the belief that the citizens are the first line of defense in our freedoms

Sixty years ago this wouldn't be a debate, only criminals carried concealed, the only honorable way to carry aweapon was in the open as a public statement to ones committment to protecting ones community.

Now after carrying in the open for two years, inspite of the judgement I knew would come from most people, even the gun community, I've come to really understand the warning our Founding Fathers gave us.

They said that when the general acceptance that the citizens were the first line of defense against tyranny, whether from a criminal in the street or the criminal in government, fell into dis-repute, we were one step from tyranny.

Sorry guys, but I believe we are the people they warned about.
 
Yep, Johnny Dollar, I can't remeber who, but one of the founding fathers said that all republics end not by invasion, but by suicide.
 
Google is our friend, John Adams was talking about how a republic is superior to a democracy "There has never been a democracy yet, that has not committed suicide"
Gives one a real warm glow when one hears our liberal/ progressive elite speaking about our "great democracy".
 
old4x4 said:
OC just makes the sheeple jump up and down. I don't want to deal with that kind of crap.
In my opinion, it also makes you target #1 in that "you're in a convenience store and its gonna be robbed" scenario.

Have you witnessed this jumping yourself, or projecting your own nervousness around firearms? If the flaming liberals in downtown Seattle don't, I'm going to say my actual experience trumps your supposition.

You're making the mistake several people in here are making, that it's either but not both. If I am carrying openly and for some reason I need to enter a convenience store (something I seldom do) I can conceal the firearm while I'm inside.

You see, I'm pro-gun. I don't care how anyone else chooses to carry, just that they should. There's a HUGE difference between being pro-gun and being pro-mywayorit'swrong. That's where the term Fud started.
 
Posted by ThomasR: Ultimately this debate really shows more how far we've fallen as to the belief that the citizens are the first line of defense in our freedoms

Sixty years ago this wouldn't be a debate, only criminals carried concealed, the only honorable way to carry a weapon was in the open...
I'm afraid you're a little off RE: timing.

Sixty years ago, I spent a lot of time reading gun books and gun magazines. The number of states that effectively prohibited the carrying of handguns, openly or concealed was large and bothersome to me as a child, and there were restrictions in counties and cities, on top of that.

Some time after the Civil War, most of the southern and border states outlawed the carrying of handguns and/or in some cases, having handguns in automobiles. Texas was among the early ones; Georgia followed suit before WWI. Missouri imposed a permit-to-purchase requirement in 1917, and I believe the carry restrictions (concealed and automobile) went in about the same time. The infamous Sullivan Act was enacted in NYS at around the same time.

In some cases permits could be obtained, but there were no shall issue provisions. In Texas, the only way to carry openly was to be named some kind of special honorary Texas Ranger. Sufficient contributions to the winning gubernatorial candidate were helpful.

It is also not accurate to say that only criminals carried concealed. Colt, H&A, H&R, Iver Johnson, Savage, and Smith and Wesson sold thousands of small revolvers and pocket semi-automatics to professional men, bankers, and so on, some for the drawer, and many for carry. Before open carry was prohibited in many of hose places, concealed carry was often been lawful, depending upon the jurisdiction. I had grandparents who preferred to carry concealed before it was prohibited, and so did my wife. I believe that permits may have been required.

By the way, the laws and the books and the articles referred to handguns as "pistols" in those days, as did Col. Colt and the dictionary.

Many of the western states remained exceptions, and open carry remained lawful, though municipal prohibition was not uncommon.

...as a public statement to ones committment to protecting ones community.
I really don't think that there is any basis for believing that carrying openly, when it was legal, was done to promote the protection of the community, much less to make any kind of public statement to that effect.

Elmer Keith did say that the prevalence of open carry in and around Salmon, Idaho made the place a safer place to live, and I've always believed that.

The idea of carrying a Model P or a top-break S&W .44 on one's belt is embroidered into the fabric of most western fiction, written and on screen, but it really wasn't all that common. Those things are heavy and cumbersome, and carrying them is not helpful to people doing a long day's work. Photographs that my uncle, a cowboy in New Mexico during the early part of the twentieth century, brought back portrayed no one carrying side-arms. I argued that the pictures were unrealistic, and he and my aunt just laughed at me with my two-gun Hopalong Cassidy outfit.

Back around that time (a century ago), the .32 S&W was by far the most popular handgun chambering in America. I imagine that most of them were kept at home or carried concealed or both, but I ave no way of knowing.

We have made remarkable progress in most places in re-securing the right of lawful carry. Yes, in most places so far, it has been limited to concealed carry; and it has been very long in coming.

I first saw open carriers in the backwoods of Missouri sixty years ago. Five years later, I saw a groundskeeper on a Ford Tractor with a Smith and Wesson .22-32 Kit Gun in a belt holster in western Missouri. Five years later, I saw men open carrying on motorcycles and in restaurants in Colorado. My reaction was far from "what an idiot". It looked perfectly normal to me.

But I've been a gun guy since i first saw Gene Autry and Roy Rogers with their engraved model P single actions. There are only three people on my street today who were born before JFK became President, and since 1963 the schools and media have done everything possible, most of it dishonest, to condition people to fear guns.

We are lucky we have brought the pendulum back as far as we have.
 
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I just wish CC was as easy/comfortable/convenient as OC. CC requires more planning and prep.
I only OC at the range and when I'm hunting.
 
In my opinion it won't.

I wonder how long the moderators are going to let this

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keep going on and on.
LOL, I can't read anymore! I didn't have a headache when I started, but I do now.

Both means of carry have their advantages and disadvantages. If your response in this thread was, "OC is not something I feel comfortable doing, but I respect your right to carry whichever way you feel is right for you".
YOU PASSED!!

Spirited discussions about tactics are welcome IMO. Being a sarcastic JERK, doesn't do much for furthering the rights of ALL gun owners to own and carry the way they see fit.
Some of you have a lousy attitude, seems it's either YOUR way or the highway.

You'll have to excuse me, I need to go shine my gun up tomorrow. I want to look my best while OCing.
 
Boy, what a topic. Always generates lively discussion, on any forum. Personally I CC, alot of folks in Ga. like OC, I have no problem with them exercising this right. More power to all who do. There are gun shops in Ga. that prohibit any carry inside, go figure. When my wife and I are out, especially with her family, they have no idea I'm carrying. So, carry on, no matter how.
 
Some good points Kleanbore, we have made some good progress over the last twenty years, however, I would suggest not to lose sight of the bigger picture by counting the trees, so to speak.

What I'm talking about is what builds republics, and then what destroys them.
Our founding fathers very much knew and wrote very eloquently what that was, A belief in a higher power, in personal responsibility and the committment to be a citizen soldier to protect your people from human predators.
That is what the second amendment is all about, what destroys them is when people no longer want to take that responsibility and want the government to protect them, simplistic,, but also true.

So we go from a time when the general acceptance that most adult men were ready to be warriors for thier people to today, how many people today accept and are able to effectively defend themselves let alone thier community?

This was expressed in the past by the acceptance of the carrying of weapons openly, as one example, California didn't outlaw the open carrying of a loaded weapon until the 1960's. California, pretty weird.

ultimately, Kleanbore, one of the ways to change peoples idea that open carry is was and still is a legitimate expression of the right to keep and bear arms is to open carry arms.

Until the gun community accepts and supports this right how can we expect the uninitiated to accept it.?
 
it was Abe Lincoln

Yep, Johnny Dollar, I can't remeber who, but one of the founding fathers said that all republics end not by invasion, but by suicide.
"How then shall we perform it? At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth... could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years....If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."
--a young Abraham Lincoln (age 28), in 1838
 
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I did armed security. Always kept a jacket in the car. When not on duty, I put jacket over my "shoot me shirt". It covered up most of the SAM Browne and duty weapon. If one looked, they could tell I was semi, sorta, kinda, sometimes, official non LEO.

The uniform, fake badge, cuffs, belt, and weapon did what is was supposed to. Along with the military bearing look, it got the job done. All a big bluff.

It did impress the kids, and uniform loving women.

I have seen some of the OC folks. They looked really strange. It shouldn't be allowed. IMHO.
If you want to oc, and its legal, well have a great time. But please do it when I am not around, so I wont openly laugh at you.

BTW, I usually CCW. Gotta snake in my pocket, just in case. NOBODY KNOWS.

just saying,,,,,,,,
Are you sure you're on the right forum? "It shouldn't be allowed"? I think you were looking for the Brady Campaign website, and took a wrong turn at Albequerque.
 
Yeah Jahwarrior, what I find interesting is that the CC people use the same putdowns towards OC people as the anti-gun people use towards all of us gun people.

The Anti-gun people will say how we are carrying a gun out of need to be tough guy or compensate for a small package, I think most of us would agree that they are in a state of transference, they are compensating for thier own feeling of helplessness and powerlessness, but then alot of the CC people will say the same about OC people, that we are trying to be a tough guy or compensating for a small package.

Why is that? Out of fear, perhaps of looking different than the crowd?

Do some people carry a gun, OC or CC out of a feeling of inadequacy, perhaps, but I beleive the majority do so out of knowing the world is a dangerous place, they are simply being mature and responsible.

For me, I OC because it's a traditional American right, no one else in the world has this right and those who don't practice thier rights, will simply lose them.
 
All I can say is: Be glad you can carry whether it is OC, CC, or both. If you have the choice to do either, choose whichever you prefer and enjoy the right to do so.. It's much better than not being able to carry at all.

No matter how much you butt heads and argue the chances of changing someone's mind is almost nil. Kind of like pro and anti gun people arguing isn't it?
 
Bizarre but fascinating.

It does illustrate the mental paralysis that I associate with the anti's position.
They are blind to a self-evident truth, blind to the numbers, blind to civil rights.

Betcha the antis think we're a stunned bunch of blind idiots.
 
Open carry is legal in my state but I choose not to practice it. Invisibility is often your friend. I would rather take my chances with someone who thinks I'm unarmed than someone who knows I am not and therefore MUST take me out without warning. I think OC just might turn what could have been an armed robbery into a murder/robbery.

I'm with OC like Bill Clinton was about abortion: it should be safe, legal and rare.
 
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