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Say I buy a 1911 with same features from Colt, Sig, Ruger, Smith.. Will I see a diff?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by wacki, Jan 6, 2013.

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  1. 19-3Ben

    19-3Ben Member

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    The very first 1911 that I ever shot was a Wilson Combat CQB. I could tell from the moment it was laid on the table in front of me that it was dripping with quality, hand fit, and just absolutely a drop-dead gorgeous pistol.
    The next 1911 I shot was a Springfield Loaded. My initial impression was "this is a really nice gun, but not like the Wilson."

    If you have an eye for quality and you know what to look for, the difference is apparent.
     
  2. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    I think a of a well built 1911 as a race car with a luxury car's suspension with 4-wheel drive that's built like a tank. It's sleek, it's smooth, it runs in adverse conditions and it survives hard use.

    The sub-$1,000 crowd simply cannot offer all of that in the same package. At least, in my opinion, no manufacturer currently does.
     
  3. wickedsprint

    wickedsprint Member

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    Except it doesn't perform like a race car.

    The 1911 is like a 1900s work truck. Sure it can still carry your groceries and wood and be entertaining to run but there are far more efficient and modern designs for cheaper.
     
  4. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    I'd bet most of those "modern" pistols would choke long before my EDC and yes, it feeds hollow points. It's far sleeker than any design I can think of and cycles smoother than ball bearings on an ice covered slope. As for efficiency, do you mean modern pistols can be injected into molds faster or they're more efficient at being less efficient with ammo? I don't consider being able to shoot 33 rounds without a magazine change efficiency, rather it denotes a lack of proficiency.
     
  5. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    My Kimber has a hand-fitted slide. And the Nighthawk I shot jammed in two magazines. I don't remember the last time my Kimber jammed. I paid $630 for it, NIB.
     
  6. JTQ

    JTQ Member

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    I'll give you the "modern designs for cheaper". However, in competitive shooting sports, "the race guns" are almost all 1911 based. They are faster.
     
  7. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    Is this what passes for evidence these days? You're comparing the performance of one pistol that you RENTED to your personal one!!! You have no idea of the history of that Nighthawk and yet you're prepared to imply that Nighthawks or other $2,000 + 1911s aren't worth the money. :rolleyes:
     
  8. farm23

    farm23 Member

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    First I shoot better with a 1911 Kimber than with my Son's Glock or a friend's cheap off brand 1911. I also shoot some better with another friend's Ed Brown. I do not shoot competitively so I own the Kimber and not the Ed Brown and it does enough for me. If I had more money I would own a custom 1911.
     
  9. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    My first, and so far only 1911 is a 5" no rail S&W E Series, in stainless. I payed $825 before taxes. It is beautiful, but, the fun part to me is that I am now spending the money needed slowly to turn it into a real looker, and also to make it truely reliable. I like taking a pickup truck, and turning it into a beautiful, moderately fancy, but practical machine.

    There is nothing wrong with buying a lower end 1911 and turning it into a $2000 shooter. At the same time, if you have $2000 to $3000 of money to spend, there is nothing wrong with splurging on a Nighthawk.
     
  10. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    I was thinking the same thing. Ive shot a T3 Comp, Falcon, Heine and never had any problems at all. However, when it was time to put my money where my mouth is, I opted for Brown and Wilson when looking at the semi-custom makers.

    Is my Colt LW Commander in the same league as my Wilson Professional?? No
    While they are the same "type" of gun the subtle changes and nuances that make a huge difference. Does it do the same job flawlessly? Yes
    Neither compare to Browns aesthetics though.

    FWIW my next 1911 will likely be a Springer TRP.
     
  11. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    So....I should BUY one based on that experience? All I'm saying is, all machines fail eventually.
     
  12. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    That is the reality of things but...some 1911s will beat themselves to death with every round and some will operate as designed lasting hundreds of thousands of rounds. There will always be freak breakages with any price point though better makes minimize the chances.
     
  13. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I don't belive that the extra cost is anywhere NEAR the return in quality.
     
  14. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    And yet people believe a Glock is worth 250% more than a Hi Point. I do think a Glock is at least that much better and I'm not a Glock owner. However; both do the same thing, have some similarity of features, are ugly and, by user feedback are reliable so is the disparity in perceived value so great as to warrant such blatant highway robbery given diminishing returns? Again as with some 1911s my answer would be an emphatic YES!
     
  15. buckhorn_cortez

    buckhorn_cortez Member

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    Depends on the pistol. If you buy a high quality, production 1911 it will function as well as a semi-custom or custom pistol. However, functioning is not handling. There are features and designs available in the semi-custom and custom pistols that make the pistol tailored to the user, and it handles better for them.

    If you took the high quality production pistol and added all of the "extras" found on the custom or semi-custom - you'd end up at nearly the same price or more in parts, labor, and finishing.

    As someone who has owned a variety of 1911's since 1982 - I can tell you that if you choose a pistol with features tailored for your personal use - the pistol is worth every penny.
     
  16. BigJimP

    BigJimP Member

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    Yes, you'll see a difference in "fit and finish" and how smooth the gun feels when you rack the slide...and how the trigger feels as it breaks, resets - and in no slack and certainly no creep ...on upper end 1911's ...( and in your list that means Wilson Combat and Ed Brown) ....both companies in my opinion, are 2 of the very best in 1911's....

    not that your other choices are bad guns...they aren't....but neither are they likely to be Wilson's or Brown's....

    You will also see a difference - after 25,000 ...and 50,000 rds thru the upper end guns like Wilson Combat ....where they will still feel just like they did when they were new out of the box.

    Wilson Combat also comes with a lifetime of the gun warranty ...even as a used gun - and even Brown won't give you that! I think Wilson's people are easier to deal with ...and they know their products.

    I have a pair of Wilsons...one broke an extractor ...after 40,000 rds or so ...and wilson paid shipping both ways, fixed it - sent it back within 10 calendar days...checked the gun out, re-polished the ramp -- just little stuff...but mostly I was impressed that an extractor was covered...and that I got it back so quickly. I shoot that gun a lot ...and its one of the best guns in my safe...and its about 7 yrs old now.

    I have one Ed Brown...and its a nice gun .../ but not better than either of my Wilsons.
     
  17. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

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    As always, this has devolved into an "I like/don't like 1911s" thread or a "My XYZ is better than a 1911" thread.

    Unfortunate, but seemingly inevitable.

    Hope the OP got a satisfactory answer early on.
     
  18. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    And what experience do you have with high-end 1911s other than a Nighthawk rental? I have three Ed Browns, two Dan Wessons and two Kimbers. I've shot thousands of rounds through them, some under match conditions, and I'll state emphatically that an Ed Brown is worth every single dollar of the purchase price. But that's just my opinion based on actually owning and shooting 1911s ranging from $1,000 to $2,700. I'll readily admit that I don't have much experience with $500 1911s although I've seen a bunch (and shot some) in USPSA matches. I do remember one match in which a new shooter had the extractor break on his new $1,400 Springfield TRP ... temporarily fixed with a spare extractor "tuned" for my Kimber. Regardless of this event, I would have no problem recommending a TRP to anyone looking for a good 1911 because my experience with that model goes beyond one USPSA match. The casual observer might be on a forum like this warning everyone to stay away from Springfield.
     
  19. witchhunter

    witchhunter Member

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    It is like comparing apples and oranges. Shoot a couple of hundred rounds through a Wilson, then pick up an "off the shelf" low end 1911. If you are a shooter, you will long for the spendier version. You will not be satisfied with a basic model. However, you may reach a point short of the spendier model that you can live with. Sights, trigger, grips, you can build whatever you want as you can afford it. The 1911 is a great platform.
     
  20. Swichblade

    Swichblade Member

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    I have not fired any low end 1911s, but once at the range I was firing a Sig Sauer 1911 then a man offered to let me shoot his Kimber. They looked entirely different, but felt the same when firing, well, except the Kimber didn't have the lanyard loop in the bottom of the grip that cuts into the hand.
     
  21. Buckeyeguy525

    Buckeyeguy525 Member

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    You won't see a difference....they will all be overpriced and unreliable
     
  22. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    I've shot Browns, Baers, Wilsons, etc.

    I never said they weren't better. I said that the difference isn't proportional to the cost.

    I also think that there is a certain amount of willingness to justify high-dollar purchases, just the same as low-cost options.
     
  23. wickedsprint

    wickedsprint Member

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    Also, these posters that notice a difference probably have a lot of time behind a 1911. They will be more sensitive to subtle changes than the "average joe".
     
  24. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Give the average joe some credit, if he can decipher which blackstrap feels better on a G17 half the battle is won.

    As for initial cost, if you keep your 1911 for a lifetime, figure 100,000 rounds is a good time for most to be overhauled. If you chose a $1,000 Kimber the cost to fire would be .01 plus the ammo for each shot. If you chose a $1,800 Les Baer it would be .018 and .025 for a Wilson or Brown. So .015/round (that's 1.5 pennies) buys you a nice looking, expertly fitted, match grade 1911 with a lifetime warranty over an inferior, and IMO Kimber is when compared to Brown or Wilson or Baer, 1911 with a warranty that is I believe now 3 years.

    Many are fine as a base for custom builds but they will cost every bit as much without retaining the resale value.
     
  25. BigJimP

    BigJimP Member

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    Higher end 1911's ....especially from Wilson Combat ....are sure not unreliable...../ overpriced, well I guess that depends on your perspective of value.

    I think of value over the long term...and Wilson Combat, as an example, warranties his guns for the life of the gun, even if you buy it used...and they are quick to fix something under warranty and return the gun to you - paying freight both ways - and while I don't expect them to break in 40,000 rds ...I did have one break an extactor and it was covered 100% under warranty / and it was shipped to their plant in Arkansas and returned to me in less than 10 days.

    To me - value is ...how smooth does the gun feel after 25,000 - 50,000 - 100,000 rds ...translating to how well it was made and tuned, quality of the internal parts..does the finish hold up..all of those little things that matter - and create value too...

    Handguns - Nov 2009 001.jpg

    The bottom 2 guns in this photo of some of my 1911's ...both wilsons ...bottom one is a 5" CQB model in .45 acp, the other is an all stainless 5" Protector model in 9mm ....both were 100% reliable right out of the box new. The CQB is my primary carry gun ....and it shows virtually no holster wear ...with the black Armor Tuff finish on it ...the stainless gun has over 40,000 rds thru it and is my primary range practice gun made in 9mm.

    Yes, they're expensive these days...around $3K each now ....but they're worth every dime to me...!
     
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