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SBR vs. AR Pistol

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by TheDomFather, Nov 22, 2019.

  1. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    Kinda tough to hunt with an unloaded gun huh?
     
  2. Obturation
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    Obturation Contributing Member

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    Yep. Private property is really all we have around here to hunt on, there is no rifle season. shotgun, archery and i think muzzle loader (not sure). Technically there is public hunting areas but it isn't easy to get a spot. So hunting here is shooting on private land with a tag incase you get something, but the gun must be transported to the specific area you will be hunting legally (encased) , unless of course it's your own property . Private property you can carry whatever you have, any way you want.
     
  3. pjeski
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    pjeski Member

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    Here in Michigan, any firearm, even SBR and machinegun, under 26” is a pistol and can be carried as one with a CPL.
     
  4. Gordon
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    Gordon Contributing Member

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    I personally don't like braces. A pistol padded tube works for me in CQB and a short bipod works out to a couple hundred yards. I single point sling it from a Qd cup on end of tube , maybe to remind me not to shoulder it :) , but it hang s well under a rain coat in Oregon half the year, I do have a CCL .
     
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  5. Choctaw

    Choctaw Member

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    I have both AR and AK pistols. All have SBA3 adjustable braces which work very well.
     
  6. RevolvingGarbage

    RevolvingGarbage Member

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    Florida does. You may only carry a concealed handgun(s).
     
  7. dogtown tom

    dogtown tom Member

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    So Florida prohibits carrying a rifle inside a case or backpack? Interesting.
     
  8. RevolvingGarbage

    RevolvingGarbage Member

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    It would prohibit doing so unless going to or from an activity where having the rifle would be legal. Technically you should be able to carry a cased rifle on the bus over to your friends house, but I'm no lawyer and good luck if you wind up attracting police service. The Florida concealed license is specifically for "handguns" and "weapons" with the second category specifically excluding firearms which are not handguns.

    I have however carried my Zastava M92 on the bus in a guitar case as a concealed carry licensee. Very legal.
    [​IMG]
     
    Gordon likes this.
  9. MistWolf

    MistWolf Member

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    This is among the worst "advice" I've seen on the internet- and I've seen some real lulus. Banning the brace doesn't ban the AR it's attached to. If a the ban comes (because the hand wringers among gun owners keep bringing it up ad nauseum) just do what you gotta do to bring your AR back into compliance.

    It's not a bad idea to SBR the lower, but hang on to the brace so you can shoot while waiting for the tax stamp. Having a brace had let me get a lot shooting done that I would not have otherwise. Seriously, what difference will the price of the brace make in the long run?

    ... and in the name of Garand, Browning and Stoner, grow a backbone and write to your reps instead of spreading doom and gloom and encouraging the petty tyrants!
     
  10. Gordon
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    Gordon Contributing Member

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    Soooo: If i have an AR over 26" and attach a Surefire 900 light on it, which does have a "pistol grip" it is not covered by NFA rules ? without a permantly attached flash hider that means 11.5" barrel with standard carbine buffer tube . Would I be able to NOT use the "pistol" buffer tube then ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  11. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Contributing Member

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    Here is a letter from the ATF addressed to someone other than yourself, that won’t necessarily hold up in a court of law; that you can try and ascertain the answer to your question.

    https://johnpierceesq.com/can-you-add-a-vertical-fore-grip-to-an-ar-pistol/

    I believe you are ok being it’s longer than 26” without the muzzle device on (unless permanently attached) to have your surefire with vertical grip built into it, because of its overall length it doesn’t constitute being an “AOW” under NFA rules. But given so you run into problems in certain jurisdictions with it being ok to conceal under permit I believe.

    Please don’t take this as legal consul because it isn’t, just the way I have interpret the law.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
    Gordon likes this.
  12. Armored farmer

    Armored farmer Member

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    I agree
    Embrace the brace.
     
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  13. Gordon
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    Gordon Contributing Member

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    "extend or fold out shoulder stock to it's extreme length , if applicable "
    Well this flies in the face of measuring OAL of a firearm to anything that I've yet heard ! In other words IF I was to attach a normal carbine buffer tube to said AR and extend it , then I now longer would need the 11 1/2" barrel to make length !! It would bring it down to shorter "pistol lengths" (to be determined , I have a Noveske Diplomat upper laying around with an 8" barrel without flash hider that might make it with stock extended) . Can I get a verifaction that stocks are indeed extended to make OAL requirements ? :)
     
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  14. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    Measuring overall length on a rifle is from the stock in its fully extended and/or unfolded position to the end of the barrel (not including any non-permanently-attached muzzle devices).

    Overall length on a pistol is the same on the muzzle end, but on the rear you don’t include anything that’s not involved with the functioning of the firearm. So you wouldn’t include any pistol braces. And you would only include the buffer tube if it was part of the firearm’s function.

    So on an AR pistol you would include the buffer tube, but on a firearm where the buffer tube wasn’t needed for anything other than holding the pistol brace, you wouldn’t include it in the overall length.
     
  15. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Contributing Member

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  16. Gordon
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    Gordon Contributing Member

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    Oh so difficult ! So I guess I cannot revert the "pistol buffer tubes" to normal functional extendable AR carbine stocks , extend the stock on a short barrel say; 8 to 10" long and if I put a Surefire 900 flashlight hand grip on it and the length is OVER 26" over all I still don't have a non NFA "firearm" ? Im confused. Think I'' put a 11 1/2" barrel on and keep the "pistol" buffer tube with no brace but an 26+" OAL and stick on the Surefire 900, that should be legal ?
     
  17. pdsmith505

    pdsmith505 Member

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    18 USC 921 (a)(7): The term rifle means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

    18 USC 921 (a)(8): The term “short-barreled rifle” means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.

    Regardless of barrel length or forward grip, if your firearm has a stock on it, then it is a rifle. If that rifle has a barrel shorter than 16", then it is a SBR.

    Yup. That's a "firearm", not a rifle or pistol.

    You can keep the brace on your pistol, it just doesn't count towards the OAL. If you want a shorter barrel while maintaining the 26+" OAL, you could always use a rifle buffer tube. It would measure 9.5" from the back of the receiver while a carbine or pistol buffer tube would measure about 7.5" from the back of the receiver.
     
    Gordon likes this.
  18. Gordon
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    Gordon Contributing Member

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    Thank you and I never thought of a rifle buffer tube (and rifle buffer !) before. Thank you all again.
     
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