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Scandium revolvers

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by JohnL2, Apr 16, 2007.

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  1. JohnL2

    JohnL2 Member

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    I was wondering if anyone had experience with these pistols. Especially the S&W 325PD. How is the recoil with the reduced weight?
     
  2. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    Most reports I've seen contain terms like "ouch" and "you gotta be $#%$#@^in kiddin' me"...

    I wouldn't own one on a bet.
     
  3. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    I fired a 357 scandium snub and found the recoil to be substantially worse than any handgun ive fired more than a 45colt Blackhawk loaded with 325 hardcast at 1350fps.

    Frankly i wouldnt own one ever.
     
  4. balin

    balin Member

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    I have a 340pd. If you are adverse to recoil then I definitely would'nt get a scandium. These guns do there jobs but very very few that own them enjoy practiceing with them with hot loads.
     
  5. ARTiger

    ARTiger Member

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    Scandium guns do bite back if you shoot hot loads in them (or, for that matter even normal loads in some calibers). You should really shoot one yourself and make the decision on that experience. The one 340 I shot with typical 125 gr. .357 was lively, but not totally horrible. For defense though, you will sacrifice some time on target for the second shot.

    Now then, I'm a fairly big guy who likes large caliber weapons. The Scandium guns (at least in .357) are no hill for me, but I wouldn't carry one just for the shootability factor in SD situations. With carry removed from the equation, the weight becomes less an issue.


    Also - Welcome Balin!
     
  6. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I fired one once and would only do so again if it were the only gun available to save my life. Yes, it was that bad....

    The Stainless Steel S&W J frames are so much better to shoot or a Ruger SP101.

    I bought a 15 oz .38Sp Airweight over the 12 oz Aitlite...
     
  7. loplop

    loplop Member

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    The internet lore on these guns is way out of proportion with the actual experience of shooting one. When I bought a MP340 to add to my j-frame collection, I thought the first cylinder of magnums would have me collecting my hand from the opposite end of the range with every 357 magnum fired. I thought I'd break my wrist, cut my finger off, lose all feeling in my hand for 35 minutes, and figured my dog would kick me for being so stupid to buy one.

    The real experience was nothing like that. Felt recoil is subjective, to be sure, but I shot cylinders full of magnums with no permanent effects. As stated above, your followup shots will be slower. You decide if the magnums are worth it, and if not, carry 38 +P.

    Now, I have no experience with the 325PD, but I'd like one. I think 45ACP in a revo is a riot. Definitely not for the timid. My Mod 22 Thunder Ranch beats me up pretty good with the stock wood grips, I would expect the 325PD to do the same. Still, your hand won't fly off, etc...
     
  8. BigG

    BigG Member

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    Only have fired the snubby, but proper technique, i.e., firing DA only goes a long way to taming the recoil. What gets you is the recoil velocity. That gun comes back RIGHT NOW. If you only have one finger gripping the handle, as you do with a SA trigger pull, you will get a sharp rap on the second knuckle when the gun jumps back into your palm. DA helps keep the gun and hand in same relationship by providing more fingers to hold the grip. HTH
     
  9. miko

    miko Member

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    I have a 340. The recoil with 357 is excruciating but not damaging to the hand - no after-effects as far as I could determine.
    I did install a backstrap-covering grip on it, which helps somewhat - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=231172

    I would never trade it for 15-ounce 38 Spl.

    3 ounces difference in weigth might determine whether the gun is on you when you need it. My boxers do not have a belt. A loaded 340 in SOB is about the limit of what the waistband would support.

    The energy advantage of 357 over 38 (around 60%) might well determine whether the BG stops fast enough. At really close ranges (0-1 foot), the energy of the gasses would make difference even more drastic as the urgency increases.

    I practice mild 38s or wax bullets from a steel 3" model 60 with an identical grip. It works well enough.

    miko
     
  10. JoeHatley

    JoeHatley Member

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    It's got a bit of a snap to it. No big deal. I do however limit my rounds to 100 at a time.

    [​IMG]

    Fun shooter...

    Joe
     
  11. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    There may be a 60% advantage for the .357 Magnum over the .38 Special in a 4" revolver but there's no way you get that in a 1.875" revolver.

    I for one never said you would break you hand firing an Airlite but it was very unpleasant. Since it's so unpleasant the owner probably won't practice as they should which will make for a poor SD handgun IMO.
     
  12. HighVelocity

    HighVelocity Member

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    I really enjoy my scandium wheel guns. Yes, they are lightweight. Yes, felt recoil is more than with steel and they are not "fun" like a 22lr in an N frame would be (SW should build that, 20rd capacity).

    The easiest and cheapest way to tame a scandium revolver is to get some rubber grips that cover the backstrap. Hogue, Pachmyr, etc.
     
  13. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    While that is true you then move away from pocket carry because of the increase in size. That defeats the purpose of a 12 oz revolver, after all, that's why you want it so light.
     
  14. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    I shoot a 242 (l frame 7 shot .38 2.5" hammerless) and a 296 ( l frame 5 shot .44spl 2.5" hammerless) , the .44 is snappy at 17 oz. but the .38spl isn't bad at all- even with +p . IMHO they are guns to be carried alot and shot once in a while :)
     
  15. 340PD

    340PD Member

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    I own a 340PD

    I am also buying a M&P 340 for my wife. Recoil in not a big deal for either of us. Most of my shooting is 38 sp. +p. I will reload 140 gr. JHP for practice if I am going to shoot over 100 rounds in a single session. The gun is a self defense gun. It would be used in only the most dire circumstances. That lightweight gun begs to be carried. Pocket holster or iwb, I never have an issue with it being too heavy. I would recommend Crimson Trace grips. With those grips, the second shot may not be necessary. That combination makes the scandiun gun a winner in my opinion. With the .357 option, I would never consider a 442 or 642. Just my .02
     
  16. Matt Dillon

    Matt Dillon Member

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    You might consider how often you will practice, if the gun hurts your hand to shoot it. :banghead: I have a friend that has one, and I wouldn't practice much with it. Go up one step to the 442, an aluminum and steel .38 special, and you get the best of both worlds. It doesn't hurt you when you shoot it, but it is light enough to carry effortlessly.
     
  17. loplop

    loplop Member

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    Matt, with the same loads, the Scandium MP340 feels the same (to me) in recoil as the 442.

    I like the MP340 so much not necessarily for the lighter weight, although that is nice (a few oz. makes a big difference in some dress pants pockets)... Nor the 357 option (although that is nice)... But the front sight. The XS tritium sight is excellent, and in defensive training I pick it up very quickly and shoot more accurately than my 442.

    I like the front sight so much I'm looking at some XS setups for my carry bottomfeeders.
     
  18. glockman19

    glockman19 Member

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    If you're shooting .38 I'm sure it feels like a 642/442. The .357 loads IMHO are "snappy". Not so much as to hurt but control on follow-up shots is most important to me. With only 5 rounds before reloading you need to hit your target in the right place.
     
  19. miko

    miko Member

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    I saw the numbers that support my assertion - even regular ammo comes close and the ammo specifically designed for snubs - like Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 357 Mag 135gr JHP - is very efficient in 1 7/8 barrel.


    No really - you don't have to go three-finger route. This creation of mine http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=231172 does not add to the length of the grip compared to the original "strapless" Hogue Bantam.


    Preoccupation with follow-up shots should not come at the expense of the effectiveness of the first shot for the last-ditch weapon.
    When it comes to using a snub - which means really close to no range - control does not matter as much for accuracy and you might not have time for many shots regardless of control.

    miko
     
  20. dairycreek

    dairycreek Member

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    I have had s&w 386 for about two years. It is a 7-shot TiScan in 357/38. It is light, accurate, and a jewel of a carry gun. It weighs about 18 ounces empty. Does it recoil? Of course. More with 357 than with 38 spcl. Is it impossible? Heck no. A lot of fun to shoot.

    [​IMG][/IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2007
  21. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    miko,
    While I do like Speer Gold Dot ammo and use it in my carry revolver their Short Barrel .357 Magnum round does not deliver 60% more power than it's .38 Ps +P Short Barrel round. I'm only disputing this because you mentioned it.

    Speer Gold Dot .357 Magnum Short Barrel:
    135 gr
    Muzzle Velocity: 990 fps
    Muzzle Energy: 294 ft/lbs

    Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P Short Barrel:
    135 gr
    Muzzle Velocity: 860 fps
    Muzzle Energy: 222 ft/lbs

    That would give the .357 Magnum round a small advantage of 130 fps and 72 ft/lbs of energy. While better than the .38 Sp round it's advantage is 32% more energy and 15% more speed. That's a far cry from 60% and since Math doesn't lie, it's not an opinion, just a fact.

    Yes the .357 Magnum has a big advantage when shot out of a 4" or longer barrel but not out of a sub-2" barrel. The length of the barrel (or lack of length) prevents the Magnum round from achieving it's full potential.
     
  22. Abner

    Abner Member

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    Second what loplop says. The M&P340 actually gives you a usable set of sights for any level of available light. Something my 642 didn't have and the reason why I rarely carried it. I find the 135+P GD pretty stout out of it, but am working my way up to it.
    Adam
     
  23. mlandman

    mlandman Member

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    I have a 340 and my wife has a 442pd. The 3 oz difference is notable. Hers has less recoil with the same load. She is recoil adverse and does 150 - 200 rounds a practice session with her S&W. I got the 340 for the weight and for the added strength. I can run 150 - 250 practice rounds (158 gr @ 775 fps & 200 ft/lbs listed with 4" bbl, probably 25% less from the 360's 2" bbl) with no soreness.

    100 rounds of +p Speer Short Barrel (part # 23921 - 135 gr @ 860 fps & 220 Ft/lbs listed with 2" bbl) can be felt the next day in my palm and wallet. ;)

    20 rounds of Speer 357 Short Barrel (part # 23917 - 135 gr @ 990 fps & 294 Ft/lbs listed with 2" bbl) makes MY hand sting, leaves a mark on the web between thumb and finger and a soreness in my hand bones.

    I use the +p as a PD load and know I will never wear the gun out AND save 20% of the weight 442, at a $$$ cost.
     
  24. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I have to correct some of what I said. I didn't realize the original post was asking about a N frame AirLite, I thought it was a J frame. I have no experience with the N frame revolvers, only the J frame ones. All I posted above will pertain to J frames, not N frames.
     
  25. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    Archangel: I've seen higher velocity numbers for the 357 135gr "short barrel" load. Or at least I think I have, and shooting the 38+P and the 357s, there sure feels like more energy difference than that!

    I thought they were pulling closer to 1,100ish from a snub. If I'm wrong, OK, but...what's your source?
     
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