pbearperry
Member
I hope I am never in a spot where someone thinks having someone play a bad guy armed and acting crazy is a good idea.Someone is going to get killed.
Scary' intruder drill leaves Phillipsburg,NJ teachers upset, officials assured
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lookn4varmints
Member
Here's another one....
I found this one back in February (Elizabeth City, NC). Asinine to the nth degree.....
http://www.wtkr.com/global/story.asp?s=7923804
Local College Causes Stir With Gunman Drill
Posted: Feb 25, 2008 07:26 PM EST
Some Elizabeth State University students are upset after being almost scared to death by a recent safety drill on campus.
On Friday, an undercover campus officer barged into a history class in the Moore building and held the class hostage. According to students, he even held a gun to the professor's head! It was all part of an emergency alert system drill that the school was planning for months. Problem is...not everyone knew it was a drill.
Four days earlier, the school did begin sending out emails to students saying there would be some sort of emergency drill on Friday. It did not specify where or exactly what time the drill would occur. It also did not mention the nature of the drill.
Then, on Friday, a few minutes before it all went down, the school sent out an alert saying there would be an armed intruder in Moore building who would be detained by campus police. Again, it did not specify which classroom. However, only about half the campus has voluntarily signed up for the instant text alerts to their phones, so most people in that particular classroom, including the professor in that class, had no idea it was a drill.
By phone on Monday morning, Professor Jingbin Wang said he was shocked and did not know it was a drill. "Everyone was scared," he said. He said some students were prepared to jump out the window. Another colleague told him that her students were using tables and chairs to block the door of their classroom. "Her heart was racing," he said about his fellow teacher.
"I cannot believe a university would subject their own students to such a horrific event," one family member of a student in that classroom wrote us. " They were terrified! It is extremely poor judgement on the part of the administration at ECSU."
Effective training for students in the wake of the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University shootings? Or a safety drill taken one step too far?
Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs Anthony Brown took our questions Monday afternoon.
"If there are people who have concerns and they were surprised, it was not our intention to surprise or shock anybody and if that occurs we are there for them," said Brown. "I really offer our sincere apology, because that was not the intent of this."
Then we asked him point blank, "Don't you think a normal person would be shocked if the person coming at their professor with a gun was a campus officer?
"Well, we did send out emails five days in advance and continued it through with alerts," said Brown.
We then pointed out that those initial alerts did not mention a gunman!
"No," he said. "That alert occurred on the day, on the day of the event."
So then we pressed further, that isn't it true that the school was absolutely aware that not all students would get that alert because not all students are signed up for the alert.
"That's absolutely true," he said. "That's where we have to test out the system and our communication among each other. Because if your neighbor knows something and you don't that tests something, that tests the communication. We should look out for each other, so that's something we learned. Paper and text and emails are one thing, but word of mouth is perhaps most important."
Again, word of mouth obviously did not spread around in time for the students in this classroom to get the warning this was a drill.
One student we talked to requested a private meeting with administration regarding her terrifying experience during the drill.
For now, the school is standing by the drill, saying that the administration, campus police and students learned from the experience. More drills are planned.
If you would like to sign up for the school's alerts to come instantly to your cell or your email, head to http://www.ecsc.edu and look for the sparkly icon at the very top of the homepage called PIER Emergency Communications System.
I found this one back in February (Elizabeth City, NC). Asinine to the nth degree.....
http://www.wtkr.com/global/story.asp?s=7923804
Local College Causes Stir With Gunman Drill
Posted: Feb 25, 2008 07:26 PM EST
Some Elizabeth State University students are upset after being almost scared to death by a recent safety drill on campus.
On Friday, an undercover campus officer barged into a history class in the Moore building and held the class hostage. According to students, he even held a gun to the professor's head! It was all part of an emergency alert system drill that the school was planning for months. Problem is...not everyone knew it was a drill.
Four days earlier, the school did begin sending out emails to students saying there would be some sort of emergency drill on Friday. It did not specify where or exactly what time the drill would occur. It also did not mention the nature of the drill.
Then, on Friday, a few minutes before it all went down, the school sent out an alert saying there would be an armed intruder in Moore building who would be detained by campus police. Again, it did not specify which classroom. However, only about half the campus has voluntarily signed up for the instant text alerts to their phones, so most people in that particular classroom, including the professor in that class, had no idea it was a drill.
By phone on Monday morning, Professor Jingbin Wang said he was shocked and did not know it was a drill. "Everyone was scared," he said. He said some students were prepared to jump out the window. Another colleague told him that her students were using tables and chairs to block the door of their classroom. "Her heart was racing," he said about his fellow teacher.
"I cannot believe a university would subject their own students to such a horrific event," one family member of a student in that classroom wrote us. " They were terrified! It is extremely poor judgement on the part of the administration at ECSU."
Effective training for students in the wake of the Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University shootings? Or a safety drill taken one step too far?
Vice Chancellor of Student Affairs Anthony Brown took our questions Monday afternoon.
"If there are people who have concerns and they were surprised, it was not our intention to surprise or shock anybody and if that occurs we are there for them," said Brown. "I really offer our sincere apology, because that was not the intent of this."
Then we asked him point blank, "Don't you think a normal person would be shocked if the person coming at their professor with a gun was a campus officer?
"Well, we did send out emails five days in advance and continued it through with alerts," said Brown.
We then pointed out that those initial alerts did not mention a gunman!
"No," he said. "That alert occurred on the day, on the day of the event."
So then we pressed further, that isn't it true that the school was absolutely aware that not all students would get that alert because not all students are signed up for the alert.
"That's absolutely true," he said. "That's where we have to test out the system and our communication among each other. Because if your neighbor knows something and you don't that tests something, that tests the communication. We should look out for each other, so that's something we learned. Paper and text and emails are one thing, but word of mouth is perhaps most important."
Again, word of mouth obviously did not spread around in time for the students in this classroom to get the warning this was a drill.
One student we talked to requested a private meeting with administration regarding her terrifying experience during the drill.
For now, the school is standing by the drill, saying that the administration, campus police and students learned from the experience. More drills are planned.
If you would like to sign up for the school's alerts to come instantly to your cell or your email, head to http://www.ecsc.edu and look for the sparkly icon at the very top of the homepage called PIER Emergency Communications System.
I have said from the start of my hearing of these drills that they are one of the stupidest ideas people have every come up with.
This one just sparked up my rage again, I totally don't understand what is in some people's heads.
As Coronach said, the only way these drills are going to be stopped are with the actor being hurt. I hope these end quickly, yet at the same time I fear for the guy who is going to be hurt.
This one just sparked up my rage again, I totally don't understand what is in some people's heads.
As Coronach said, the only way these drills are going to be stopped are with the actor being hurt. I hope these end quickly, yet at the same time I fear for the guy who is going to be hurt.
Deus Machina
Member
I'm headed back to college in a semester or two. If this happens in a classroom down here, there will be a major lawsuit, and I for one am not the type to sue when it's unwarranted.
I just ran through the CC laws, too--in FL, it's legal to carry on school grounds, concealed on your person, a stun gun that does not fire darts or projectiles. I'll have to compliment my pistol with Device de la El Zappo, now.
I just ran through the CC laws, too--in FL, it's legal to carry on school grounds, concealed on your person, a stun gun that does not fire darts or projectiles. I'll have to compliment my pistol with Device de la El Zappo, now.
maestro pistolero
Member
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2008
- Messages
- 111
The ACTOR might have been wearing my laptop for a head band after i used it for a point-blank frisbee.
There are laws against threatening and menacing behavior. When you threaten and menace anyone who is not aware that it's a "drill" then you're in violation of the law just as assuredly as if you'd menaced and threatened with intent to harm.
Besides the probability of someone being shot in the process, some administrators need to be seriously sued for threatening and menacing staff.
Threatening and menacing -- in these instances ARMED threats and menacing -- is criminal behavior.
Besides the probability of someone being shot in the process, some administrators need to be seriously sued for threatening and menacing staff.
Threatening and menacing -- in these instances ARMED threats and menacing -- is criminal behavior.
coyotehitman
member
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2007
- Messages
- 558
He would have definitely ran away with three shoes, two on his feet and mine stuck in his butt.
A good way to cause a heart attack on the unsuspecting.
I go to a college with a lot of military (current, retired, voc rehab) and I gaurantee you that even though it is against the law to have a gun in the school, if a gunman came in, he would end up shot many times by many people.
Although, one of the dips***s went into the head to drop a deuce and put his gun on the toilet paper holder and forgot it there. Now there is a "NOTICE" in all the school emails and such about the illegal nature of carrying on school grounds.
That's right, there is no praying in public schools...that is unless there is some kind of emergency. It's apparent that school boards don't think that God wants to hear from us unless we need something from him. No wonder why kids are losing commons sense and critical thinking skills...look at the example they get at school.
Although, one of the dips***s went into the head to drop a deuce and put his gun on the toilet paper holder and forgot it there. Now there is a "NOTICE" in all the school emails and such about the illegal nature of carrying on school grounds.
That's right, there is no praying in public schools...that is unless there is some kind of emergency. It's apparent that school boards don't think that God wants to hear from us unless we need something from him. No wonder why kids are losing commons sense and critical thinking skills...look at the example they get at school.
Social engineering at it's finest in the public fool system and in other places!
UGH.
I would be praying and wanting to aim at the bad guy if it was real. My late husband used to say that God helps those who help themselves and it is not a Biblical quote. He believed in God as I do but he believed in SELF defense too!
Catherine
UGH.
I would be praying and wanting to aim at the bad guy if it was real. My late husband used to say that God helps those who help themselves and it is not a Biblical quote. He believed in God as I do but he believed in SELF defense too!
Catherine
I realize that the quoted part about the state sponsoring the drill at the doctor's office is not the op's example, but I'd be surprised if they weren't at least inspired by other government sponsored programs. Also, schools are state sponsored, so I while they may not be technically government, they are close.
This is happening all over the country, and it has happened under federally funded programs. In one case, a group of law enforcement officers pretended to be a "violent crazy home schooling group" and staged an armed takeover of a school, terrorizing the kids.
Here are some more articles about this sort of thing:
http://justanotherblowback.blogspot.com/2006/11/armed-police-terrorize-school.html
Slightly different this one, but terrorizing kids is the common part:http://www.aclu.org/drugpolicy/gen/10672prs20031215.html
http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=...h-school-raid-might-have-broken-dog-rules.txt
http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com/watch?v=XK6ayj9JawU
http://www.aclu.org/drugpolicy/youth/10720prs20020725.html
That should be enough to make the point.
Why are there drills all over the place, teaching our children to cower from police infringing on their rights, and run from armed gunmen, hiding and waiting to be shot? Are they teaching them how to act like cowards and slaves of government? If you asked me that question, I'd say yes.
SCKimberFan
Member
doncol posted:
And just who do you think is running the schools? It ain't the parents!!
Plus this post:
And just who do you think is running the schools? It ain't the parents!!
Plus this post:
Once again I am embarrassed for the State of NJ where I live. My children are 'trained' too, but not to cower, to seek cover and make ready to counter-attack if possible. They also have my standing instructions to ignore the 'hide and wait instructions' if they hear shots fired in their schools, and to instead get the hell out of the school and call for help.
However, these drills are gaining in popularity and everyone here should find outlets to provide feedback to those in charge regarding the dangers outlined in this thread and the very uselessness of the exercises. We have left the education system for too long to the liberal-socialist mindset people and now it will be hard to break their stranglehold on it with the unions and their own little networks...
However, these drills are gaining in popularity and everyone here should find outlets to provide feedback to those in charge regarding the dangers outlined in this thread and the very uselessness of the exercises. We have left the education system for too long to the liberal-socialist mindset people and now it will be hard to break their stranglehold on it with the unions and their own little networks...
Zach S
Member
Ignorance is like a snowball. Its starts at the top, and gets bigger as it rolls down the hill.
rainbowbob
Member
LKB3rd :
Most of the examples in your link list are real drug raids on school children - which is disgusting on so many levels.
However, one of the examples is a demonstration of how "active shooter" drills should be conducted:
http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com/watch?v=XK6ayj9JawU
That one involved student volunteers who were fully aware of what was going on, and appears to have been run during non-school hours. I have no objection whatsoever to training LEOs in drills of that kind. The only surprises should be for the LEOs participating in the drill.
Most of the examples in your link list are real drug raids on school children - which is disgusting on so many levels.
However, one of the examples is a demonstration of how "active shooter" drills should be conducted:
http://technorati.com/videos/youtube.com/watch?v=XK6ayj9JawU
That one involved student volunteers who were fully aware of what was going on, and appears to have been run during non-school hours. I have no objection whatsoever to training LEOs in drills of that kind. The only surprises should be for the LEOs participating in the drill.
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larry_minn
Member
GEM posted
I also personally know a prof that was going to run an eyewitness memory drill in class. Guy runs in with a blank gun and 'shoots' the teacher. Runs out and then you say what you saw. This was a night class full of cops. If it had happened much 158 gr round nose lead hilarity would have ensued. So the guy wouldn't get hurt as we know those runs are lousy stoppers.
We clued in the prof and it was cancelled. I had some of the cops in my class, they thought it would have been really
I had the exact same thing. Teacher told us she used to have a grad student come in/complain his failing grade would ruin his life,etc. Then pull a gun and shoot her/run out.
Only the teacher said that because of actions a few yrs before they now use a vidio clip from "Hill Street Blues". She refused to say what actions caused this stunt to be discontinued.
I have been a "student" as well as "mad bomber" in school shooting drills. EVERYONE was involved/that part of school (not during school hrs) was also closed off, barriers, signs not only on hallways to side of school but also at enterance to parking lot/office in "open" side of school. Escorts were REQUIRED for anyone not taking active part. Thats the only way to safely do this. (and all Officers had to have chamber flags/empty mags/double checked first.
I also personally know a prof that was going to run an eyewitness memory drill in class. Guy runs in with a blank gun and 'shoots' the teacher. Runs out and then you say what you saw. This was a night class full of cops. If it had happened much 158 gr round nose lead hilarity would have ensued. So the guy wouldn't get hurt as we know those runs are lousy stoppers.
We clued in the prof and it was cancelled. I had some of the cops in my class, they thought it would have been really
I had the exact same thing. Teacher told us she used to have a grad student come in/complain his failing grade would ruin his life,etc. Then pull a gun and shoot her/run out.
Only the teacher said that because of actions a few yrs before they now use a vidio clip from "Hill Street Blues". She refused to say what actions caused this stunt to be discontinued.
I have been a "student" as well as "mad bomber" in school shooting drills. EVERYONE was involved/that part of school (not during school hrs) was also closed off, barriers, signs not only on hallways to side of school but also at enterance to parking lot/office in "open" side of school. Escorts were REQUIRED for anyone not taking active part. Thats the only way to safely do this. (and all Officers had to have chamber flags/empty mags/double checked first.
That, actually, would be a hysterical way to resolve this. No one gets [strike]hurt[/strike] err, killed, and the actor has a great story to tell everyone when he goes to his PT sessions.
"So, how did your arm get broken?"
"A shrieking cheerleader snapped it while throwing me to the ground."
"Oh...kinky."
"Yeah. Not so much."
Mike
Zundfolge
Member
I hate to see someone get hurt, but the best way for these things to end is for a bunch of school teachers to beat down some blank packing idiot with chairs.
The only reason for "loss of employment" would be because the law suit settlement paid TO the heroic teacher would preclude their need for further employment.
Arrest, legal fees, sentencing ... not going to happen as the legal threshold for using violence in self defense is "Would a reasonable man be in fear of serious injury or death" .
I'm pretty cynical and even I know that's not true.
The only reason for "loss of employment" would be because the law suit settlement paid TO the heroic teacher would preclude their need for further employment.
Arrest, legal fees, sentencing ... not going to happen as the legal threshold for using violence in self defense is "Would a reasonable man be in fear of serious injury or death" .
MacTech
Member
The solution is simple then, BAN BUREAUCRATS!, or at the very least have them have to qualify for and carry a CBL (Concealed Bureaucracy License ) which would be null and void in schools and governmental buildings
When bureaucrats are outlawed, only outlaws will be bureaucrats
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