SCENARIO: Someone is Kicking In Your Front Door

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A bad guy did kick my door in at 4:00am. He was hopped up on meth and booze. He kept yelling that he was going to kill me. My wife was hiding upstairs talking to 911. I was trying to hold the door together waiting for the police to arrive. The door started to collapse so I stepped back, he rushed straight at me. I had no other option but to fire. I did more things wrong than right that night. Since then I have trained regularly and carry everyday.
 
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Imagine if it was the cops, who went to the wrong address - and you were clutching on to your firearm "because you carry even at home."

What happens to one then?

These vids are legion on the net...
 
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We took in a homeless teenager 6 years ago.

My wife and I came back to town, she went to the bedroom to change, I went upstairs for whatever. I heard her screaming. I came down stairs to a half dozen LEO's holding her at bay. Their attention shifted to me, demanded to know who I was and what I was doing there. My wife told me one of the guys had shoved her. It started getting hard to communicate with then when I finally looked at one of the LEO's and told her, "This is my house... you obviously have nothing better to do than shove an elderly woman around."
They calmed down. The teenager finally emerged from her room and admitted calling 911 because she wasn't expecting us so soon. My wife later told me she had just got her clothes on when the door opened and these cops entered. Not a single warning. Yes, the door was locked.

Snowball of events. Had I been downstairs I'm sure I would've reached for my pistol. I'm also cognizant that seasoned criminals are just as adept at getting through a door.

This scenario has given me much food for thought. I've no intentions of taking in any more people, but if so you can bet I'll call ahead next time we arrive in town.
 
TarDevil said:
I'd say you did exactly what you should. I don't think we need the photo, though.

How are you doing after this?
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I removed the picture. It was just over 10 years ago. My wife needed therapy at the time but is fine today. Thank you for asking. The detective in charge was amazing in helping us during that difficult time. Sadly, he was killed in the line of duty a few months later only a couple miles from our house. We sold our house that year and moved to the suburbs. I installed a security system and cameras in the new house before moving in. In my first classroom training the instructor (SWAT Captain) talked about the recent local shooting and instantly noticed my demeaner. He knew I must of been the home owner. He spent additional time with me afterwards. He went through everything I did wrong and what to do correctly. I can't say enough how important it is to be properly trained and to practice.
 
Okay, first thing, everybody has replaced the 1" Chineseium screws in their lock plate, door, and hinges on all exterior doors with some 3" deck screws, right?

Second, in your house you generally have certain legal rights if action is taken with an intruder, you may also lose those rights if you do the same on your lawn. My advice would be to stay in your home, call the police, stay away from a direct line behind the door, and be prepared to take necessary action if someone actually enters your home.

I would not recommend firing through the door if the potential threat is still outside.
 
jimmyjackjones said:
He went through everything I did wrong and what to do correctly. I can't say enough how important it is to be properly trained and to practice.
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If you are okay with talking about it, the items done wrong might be good lessons for the rest of us. I am guessing that trying to hold the door from opening was one of the things done wrong.
 
Imagine if it was the cops, who went to the wrong address - and you were clutching on to your firearm "because you carry even at home."

What happens to one then?
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This is a good reason for not shooting through the door and waiting to positively identify the person(s) trying to gain entry.
 
Door is a death funnel. A kill box for both sides.

I ain't going anywhere near it. You're welcome to kick it. Doors are cheaper than legal fees.

Ayoob and I, dont always agree. But he has an excellent video about door knocks.

The only time this became a viable concern was during the riots. And my neighbors would have splashed any candle walking down the street, a hundred yards from anything I cared about.

OP mentions fleeing the house. That seems like a bad idea.
 
aaaaa said:
If you are okay with talking about it, the items done wrong might be good lessons for the rest of us. I am guessing that trying to hold the door from opening was one of the things done wrong.
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The number one wrong mistake was that I aimed at his legs instead of center mass. I fired 3 rounds at his legs when he rushed me. All 3 missed. 4th round ended the attack. Standing in front of the door and not taking a defensive hard position was 2nd biggest mistake. 3rd mistake was not knowing exactly where my wife was in the house. Other mistakes were not putting on shoes (socks on hardwood floors), not having my weapon in a ready state, not having a good secured door and locks (he kicked through the deadbolt on the 3rd kick), not being properly trained (this is really #1), and knowing what follows a self defense shooting including what to say. Hopefully sharing my experience will inspire others to seek out training. Best Regards.
 
jimmyjackjones said:
The number one wrong mistake was that I aimed at his legs instead of center mass. I fired 3 rounds at his legs when he rushed me. All 3 missed. 4th round ended the attack. Standing in front of the door and not taking a defensive hard position was 2nd biggest mistake. 3rd mistake was not knowing exactly where my wife was in the house. Other mistakes were not putting on shoes (socks on hardwood floors), not having my weapon in a ready state, not having a good secured door and locks (he kicked through the deadbolt on the 3rd kick), not being properly trained (this is really #1), and knowing what follows a self defense shooting including what to say. Hopefully sharing my experience will inspire others to seek out training. Best Regards.
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A lot of good material here, perhaps worthy of its own thread or let this thread continue with it. I'll say that shooting at the legs seems a natural response as who of us really wants to potentially kill someone. It is against human nature (at least before its fallen state). Thanks for posting this.
 
aaaaa said:
A lot of good material here, perhaps worthy of its own thread or let this thread continue with it. I'll say that shooting at the legs seems a natural response as who of us really wants to potentially kill someone. It is against human nature (at least before its fallen state). Thanks for posting this.
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Legs have big arteries in small spaces
 
First, the door or window is your last line of defense before someone enters your dwelling. A properly setup exterior will result in both physical deterents to reaching the doors and windows and sufficient warning that someone is entering the protected zone.
 
aaaaa said:
Training I had says you have to see the target and be at threat of bodily injury or death before you can shoot, so my guess is if someone is kicking in your front door, you cannot shoot until they actually come through the door and present themselves as a threat. I guess there are other, legitimate reasons someone might kick in your front door that would make it unwise to shoot through the door as it is happening? Maybe there is a fire and the fire department is trying to get in. Maybe you attended a political rally at the wrong time and place and the FBI is kicking in your door. But seriously, I would anticipate if my front door was being kicked in, maybe some drug dealers are at the wrong house.

So, given we can't shoot through the door, and it is being kicked in, the next step seems highly dependent upon if there are others in the house who could be at risk, in which case retreat may not be an option as those others could be harmed by the perp. Unless you had wisely created and practiced what to do in such a scenario, and everyone rushes to the safe space, which does not always work depending what they are doing when this happens. And , depending on the state, one may not have to retreat within their own home.

Certainly if home alone, retreat is a good idea, like out the back door if time permits. Then run to the neighbor's and call 911. Well, too many variables in this scenario once we get past the kicking in of the door. And it does seem you can't just shoot thorough the door.

I once had a spooky situation late one evening and well after dark where someone beat on my front door so hard it broke the plastic clips retaining the storm window in the storm door. Fortunately, it must have been a prank as they left right after beating on the door.

Decades ago, a friend's father-in-law was killed in the middle of the night when someone knocked at the door, he came down to see who it was and they shot him dead right through the door. That must have been a drug hit at the wrong house.
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People do stupid stuff all the time. The physiological effects of fear on the body may easily exacerbate this, causing people to more readily commit themselves to rash and unwise actions.

Yes, training helps to mitigate this quite a bit. Whether classroom, practical, or simply "thought experiments".

In general, it's almost certainly one of the stupidest things a person could do when applying deadly force...shooting through something without first being sure of the target. There are so many things that can go wrong legally, ethically, and morally.

And, since you mentioned "retreat"...I submit that people often overthink "retreat" and confuse the issue with what they REALLY should be doing along this line. "Retreat" is one subset under the category of "defensive posturing". The goal is not necessarily "retreat"...it's to place oneself (and others) in a better, more defensible posture. That may involve many things, such as hiding (out of sight), cover (physical protective shelter), distancing, changing lighting conditions, letting the dog loose, calling for help, and yes...outright retreat or escape.

All these things, and more, singularly or in combination, are actions which buy you time, increase your safety margin, allow you to make better judgement calls, give you a better chance to position yourself for deadly force use should you need it, etc.

If someone is "kicking your door in", then approaching the door isn't likely to be the smartest thing to do. It moves you toward danger instead of away, places you in a more vulnerable position, gives you less time to evaluate the who and what, gives you less time to deploy deadly force if required, gives you less time to NOT use deadly force if it's NOT ultimately called for, etc.

There are a great many things which can go wrong, even in a totally justified defensive shooting. The LAST thing anybody needs is to make things worse by depriving themselves of the means of making the wisest decisions they can in the circumstances.
 
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I'm fortunate to have a window that can observe the front door.

If there's a knock or ring, that's where I go rather than to the door itself. The view is slightly behind the door, so the person at the door is not facing towards me.
 
I would wait for them to breach the threshold. Once the frame splinters and there's a clear shot I might still shoot onto my porch if the target had full hands and was facing me. Empty hands I'd shout to stop and give them a second.

I'd never shoot through a door or any solid cover prior to dramatic developments that gave me greater confidence of my target than simply noise on the other side of my door.

You have to be sure, really sure, before you take a life. If your door is keeping them out and about to break down its about to be a life and death situation, but not until the barrier gives way; if the door is unbroken and they stop attempting after the third kick and leave but I shoot before the third kick, who created those deadly circumstances?
 
In the late 80s, a neighbor broke the metal storm door on my mobile home, seeking his g/f. As he was several inches taller and about 50+ pounds heavier, I already had my pistol drawn while on the phone to the police. I even said to the dispatcher - "He's here in my house and I'm pointing my gun at him! Now get out here !!" It still took them almost 10 minutes to get there. He was so far into my house that he was beyond the open inner door and I was in a corner by the couch and phone with no exit. Fortunately, he wasn't so drunk that he didn't see the gun and he turned and left. One step closer and I would have fired as he was only 8 - 10 ft. away at the door.
 
Jeff White said:
I bet this guy wishes he hadn’t shot through the door;


Man arrested after shooting teen who knocked on his door


https://mol.im/a/10746713
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Not the same thing. First the article says he shot through a glass door after the kids had Ding Dong Ditched him three times. He knew who he was shooting at.

Nothing like someone trying to kick down your door.
 
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