[Scenario-Your Opinion] % Chance of 1-Shot Stop With .40 JHP Through the Heart From A Full Size Gun?

No.

85% of human beings who are shot with a handgun survive the experience

In order to get the right answer you have to ask the right question.

Are you asking if 40 Smith & Wesson is an effective caliber or are you asking for validation of your choice to carry a glock 22?

 

Premise is flawed on several counts.

if you are in fear of your life, you don't take a shot and wait and see what effect it had. It's probably going to be psycho-physiologically impossible with the adrenaline loading in any event.

In all likelihood, both you and the threat are moving, so the ability to focus on something as small as a fist is unlikely, too.

Given the adrenaline, near any round through the center of the heart is going to be fatal. But, it may not be incapacitating (ref above, ad naus.)

You shoot to stop the threat. That does not require the threat to die per se, only to stop being a threat.

Further, very little in life is sure. Things assumed to be "100%" will not be so. Murphy is the son of a female dog and is in every corner.

 

Person potentially has ~10 seconds voluntary hostile activity after that heart shot to shoot / stab.
This was from a 10mm 155 XTP - the deer ran about 30 yards (ETA: on 3 legs) and fell over; if he had a gun he could have shot back at me instead.
A quarter is .95

 

Only three pages so far? On this vitally important subject? Seriously though (and no disrespect intended toward any of the thoughtful, well-meaning posters here), but didn't we decide all this back in 1990 (or whenever it was that the FBI decreed that .40 S&W was the new miracle caliber)?

That'd be my question, too, but personlly, I'd be looking for more expert advice than from us anonymous denizens of the interwebs, even though we all have cool screen-names...

All of the ballistic research results are out there, and studies of actual results on the streets have been done.

 

Lost River could have done it better. JCN could have done it with a. 380 with no sights

 

I basically asked out of 10 times, how many times would a .40 to the heart be lethal. Just one. Very specific, I know. All the way down to the ammo and gun. Seems like most people say 9 or 10 times.

All other things taken away from this question is to each their own.

 

Killing your assailant isn't the goal, stopping him from being a threat is. 99 out of a hundred times making it clear that you're armed and willing to fight will do that without firing a shot. Which makes caliber irrelevant.

If you want to carry a Glock 22 carry a Glock 22.

Let your freak flag fly

 

What makes it unremarkable at this point in time, to you?

 

What's with insult? Also, you think I'm looking to carry a G22?

 

"Aggressive action by a determined adversary can be stopped reliably and immediately using a handgun only by a shot that disrupts the brain or upper spinal cord. Even the most disruptive heart wound cannot be relied upon to prevent aggression before 10 to 15 seconds have elapsed." - Dr. Martin L. Fackler, COL, USA; Wound Ballistic Workshop, FBI Academy; September 15 - 17, 1987; "9mm VS .45 Auto"; p. 8.

Link to paper - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://forum.afte.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11085.0;attach=29687&ved=2ahUKEwj2tOeJkOr3AhWEIH0KHY8xBxwQFnoECAgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1YPaJOM0PEBkWiUVRiqag0

 

This is, I think, the third thread you've started about the magic of the .40 S&W. People get punch drunk with repetitiveness.

I have to ask myself why I'm even reading and responding... again.

 

What insult?

Perhaps I misread your first post.

 

The flag comment.

 

This asinine claim is based on the myth the officers and agents carrying sidearms can choose their own weapons. While I suppose there are some departments and agencies that allow officers to choose their own weapons, the great majority of agencies and departments dictate what arms may be carried either on or off duty. The choice of arm is not determined by vote of the officers or anything near that system. Arms are generally selected by some official of the agency or the sponsoring level of government usually on the basis of cost versus merchandise (guns) and services (gunsmith support and training).
Also from official releases from a federal government agency and the discussions of some superiors in the agencies I have served, the ability to qualify on the 'official' qualification course is far more important than stopping power. Not to mention training employees to shoot is far too expensive.

Some truth to that first statement. The smaller caliber handguns are really bad at stopping. From time to time, an incident occurs wherein a villain is not incapacitated with a proper shot. One points out the same thing happens with victims of rifle shots as well.
But a policeman or other lawman usually has only a handgun at his (or her) disposal. Calling in air strikes or artillery fire simply isn't done.

 

Something about this thread is disturbing.

 

I meant if you want a Glock 22 get one

 

And that's as far as I got

 

A .40 to the heart of a human is going to be fatal 10/10 times, barring a miracle. And miracles do occasionally occur.

IF you succeed in hitting your assailant with your .40, in the heart, he. will. die. The only question is if he will drop instantly or if he will continue his hostile behavior for a short time before succumbing to his injury.

 

Would you be surprised if others disagreed with you in this thread? Or thought all handguns are terrible at best, and one needs a rifle for any effect to be had?

 

I have no strong opinion on the .40 S&W. I own a couple. Because I shoot them as well as any 9mm I owned on the occasion I carry a semi automatic it’s in that caliber. Only because it makes a bigger hole. If I shot my 9mms noticeably better than the .40’s I’d carry one of them.

About the heart shot.

Hold your breath. The reason you don’t pass out right away is because your heart is still pumping oxygenated blood. Until you have exhausted that 02 supply you will stay conscious.

About the lung shot. If it’s into the lung and no other internal damage is taken the individual could be a threat for some time. Remember, there are two lungs and even with only one functioning correctly there’s enough 02 available to maintain conscious thought.

Lets say you get that clean heart shot and it stops functioning immediately. Meaning not beating and 02 saturated blood is not being moved from the lungs into the arteries. The result of that would be about like this:

Watch a UFC fight when someone is getting choked out. It’s much like what happens in a heart attack or in your shot example. Blood is no longer being moved as the choke constricts arteries trying to bring the 02 to maintain consciousness. Seems unless they tap most folks go under after the lock on in about 8 seconds or so. Of course, with the kinetic energy of the round in a situation like that even if someone was conscious for that length of time their ability to remain a viable threat will likely significantly diminish over that short period.

I doubt that in your stated scenario it will matter if the firearm used is a 9mm or .40

Not sure if that explains it any better than what’s been said before.

 

Someone actually put me in a chokehold once as a demonstration. I tapped out before I passed out but it only took about 4 seconds before I was incapable of fighting back.

And with that, I truly am out

 

Yes, I would be surprised if anyone truly disagreed with me. Because your scenario is very specific.

In your exact specific scenario, a .40 would be fatal 10/10 times. But it leads to some ancillary questions: A) Can you be sure to hit the heart? B) Do you have contingency plans for how to handle a possible delay in incapacitation when it may take a few seconds for the shot’s fatal effects to be felt? C) Would another caliber or weapons platform achieve the same effect with greater controllability, lesser cost, or more margin of error should your shot miss? That’s what causes this thread to be 3 pages. Most folks are positing that a .40 will do exactly what you ask BUT it’s immaterial in the real world because you can’t be guaranteed a heart shot. A rifle may incapacitate faster in real life due to greater surrounding tissue destruction or hydrostatic shock or some other wounding mechanism.