School me on ARs, please - looking to purchase first

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Anchorite

Anchorite

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Ok Team, I know next to nothing about ARs. Well, I know there are different caliber options, uppers, lowers, but that’s about it.

Gas piston, direct impinge, gas block, staked, pinned, chrome lined bores….I’m lost.

That out of the way, what I’m interested in - and relying on my fellow THR enablers - is research and experience! Tell me your horror stories and what you learned the hard way.

I want a 223, preferably a 1x7 or 8 twist (so I can run the 50-77grs), carbine (16”) length, and I think mil-spec “furniture” as opposed to “commercial?”
Seems the prices are finally coming down, so probably better to buy on the dip.

Not really looking to hunt with, but might with another upper one day. Coyotes and maybe a small hog.

Budget? $1000 or just under.
Brands I’ve looked at:
Windham
CMMG
Anderson
Ruger
Smith & Wesson

More or less interested in a serious plinker that may see some neglect or occasional abuse, but not going to battle with it.
Who makes the F150 of ARs? That’s what I’m interested in. Doesn’t have to be the top-of-the-line, but rather a solid choice. What do I need and can do without?

Thanks in advance.
 
Least expensive way to get into AR15's is with a Palmetto State Armory Kit.

Examples of kits I like:
$419.99 free shipping
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...de-moe-ept-rifle-kit-rear-mbus-516447449.html

$449.99 free shipping
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-1-7-nitride-moe-odg-rifle-kit-516444601.html

The mid-length AR15's will allow for the proper attachment of a bayonet. Some say the mid length gas tube is more reliable.
I own both and can't tell the difference.

Call around to your local gun shops for prices on stripped receivers. I just picked up 2 stripped Anderson receivers (aka Poverty Pony receiver) for $65 each.

Watch a couple videos on youtube on how to assembly a lower receiver. It's not that hard, I've assembled easily 10 of them but will re-watch videos on assembling the fire control group.

If you don't want to take that on. Look into complete uppers and complete lowers.

Example:
$299.99 16 inch Nitride complete upper (free shipping):
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-nitride-moe-upper-with-rear-mbus-bcg-ch.html

$149.99 complete lower (Free shipping):
https://palmettostatearmory.com/bla...r15-complete-moe-ept-stealth-lower-black.html

$20 transfer fee at your local FFL = $469.98 AR15.

I built similar PSA kits for my Niece and 2 Nephews, last yearm and gave them the guns, mags, ammo, and cleaning kits to them for Christmas.

index.php
 
Anchorite said:
Who makes the F150 of ARs?
Click to expand...

I'm not an AR because pistol gripped rifles aren't my thing but the modularity is so I do have an interest in reading these types of threads... the newbie threads.

After all my readings... the answer to your question, it's the Ruger and S&W. Pick the one that feels right and has options, like stock etc, that you want and you're good to go.

Those will get you something a little better than an F150; more like a Silverado or Sierra ;)

Buying a complete upper and lower and whatever else you need from PSA looks easy enough and may save you some money but you won't get the benefits of buying a complete rifle from known good companies that seem to support their customers well. But there is more options doing it the PSA way and there's a lot of folks here willing to help.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
PSA kits are good to go if you want to build your own, and their complete guns are usually perfectly serviceable.
I like Del-Ton for good, cheap ARs but S&W and Ruger are also nice for complete rifles.
Click to expand...

I was wondering about the Del-ton models. Quality wise, are they reputable?
I’m leaning heavily toward a factory-assembled rifle instead of building one. Appreciate your thoughts.
 
drobs said:
Least expensive way to get into AR15's is with a Palmetto State Armory Kit.

Examples of kits I like:
$419.99 free shipping
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...de-moe-ept-rifle-kit-rear-mbus-516447449.html

$449.99 free shipping
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-1-7-nitride-moe-odg-rifle-kit-516444601.html

The mid-length AR15's will allow for the proper attachment of a bayonet. Some say the mid length gas tube is more reliable.
I own both and can't tell the difference.

Call around to your local gun shops for prices on stripped receivers. I just picked up 2 stripped Anderson receivers (aka Poverty Pony receiver) for $65 each.

Watch a couple videos on youtube on how to assembly a lower receiver. It's not that hard, I've assembled easily 10 of them but will re-watch videos on assembling the fire control group.

If you don't want to take that on. Look into complete uppers and complete lowers.

Example:
$299.99 16 inch Nitride complete upper (free shipping):
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-nitride-moe-upper-with-rear-mbus-bcg-ch.html

$149.99 complete lower (Free shipping):
https://palmettostatearmory.com/bla...r15-complete-moe-ept-stealth-lower-black.html

$20 transfer fee at your local FFL = $469.98 AR15.

I built similar PSA kits for my Niece and 2 Nephews, last yearm and gave them the guns, mags, ammo, and cleaning kits to them for Christmas.

index.php
Click to expand...
Great pic of the kids, notice the trigger discipline!
 
Anchorite said:
I was wondering about the Del-ton models. Quality wise, are they reputable?
I’m leaning heavily toward a factory-assembled rifle instead of building one. Appreciate your thoughts.
Click to expand...
Of all my ARs, I would grab the Del-Ton if I had to jump out the window into a firefight.
index-44.jpg
They do save some money by not machining most of their barrels to an M4 profile. Makes the gun a little nose-heavy, but pays accuracy and muzle climb dividends. Aside from adding the Magpul furniture and rear sight, Ive never had to mess with this one at all and it has run 100%.
 
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Anchorite said:
Budget? $1000 or just under.
Brands I’ve looked at:
Windham
CMMG
Anderson
Ruger
Smith & Wesson

More or less interested in a serious plinker that may see some neglect or occasional abuse, but not going to battle with it.
Who makes the F150 of ARs? That’s what I’m interested in. Doesn’t have to be the top-of-the-line, but rather a solid choice. What do I need and can do without?
Click to expand...
Pretty much all of those are "F150s" (and you could easily add in PSA (Palmetto State Armory) and ArmaLite to the list.

Probably pick based on "looks" is as like to be the easiest "decider."
M-Lok fore ends often "look" slightly less "military" and not as "er whut" as the key-mod or skeletonized ones.
That is unless one of the free-float fronts catches your eye.
Worry less about "doo-dads" as there is virtually nothing that cannot be either added or swapped on an AR.

Things you don't need (this will be controversial, and will only represent my one, singular, opinion)
Forward Assist
Adjustable Stock.
There are two separate flamewars in those, and neither are worth haggling over here.
And, having pointed those out, my full recommendation is that I'd not pay extra to either add or delete them from what otherwise looks to be your dream AR.
The last thing that seems to trip people up is: sights.
Buy glass or don't or buy iron or both--buying both can be silly.
Again, I'd not add nor delete for what would be otherwise an ideal rifle.

The only real "accessory" you will want to go with an AR are magazines. Just buy Magpul and be happy.
 
If you choose to go the route of PSA, you could save some tax getting a complete upper and lower - just not pinned together. You can do that at the FFL and likely save $80.

"Milspec" is a good minimum but it's not all that - spec's were created to keep from cheating Uncle Sam, not because they are state of the art. This is where you tread carefully, because a good rifle will shoot 2MOA - which is milspec - the Best rifle will shoot .5 MOA - and cost $400-600 more. But it will only do that with $1 cartridges, a scope, and ability.

Things you may want to avoid: The military barrel with the deep cut to hang the M203 grenade launcher assembly. That's all it does better, nobody has one.
Brand name furniture vs military - a grip cannot be proven to increase accuracy any more than the barrel can provide. Same with the stock, too. Mostly fashion items from the aftermarket. You can do that later.
Freefloats are expensive and won't increase the accuracy more than the barrel can provide. If you have a better barrel, just don't lean on it with a sling or fence. If it's a 2MOA barrel save your money. A free float needs to work with a .5MOA barrel to see any advantage. They are highly fashionable but the actual delivery if improved accuracy is incremental, not gamechanging.
Fixed sights - better than nothing, but an optic on the rail does it all. Even a Bushnell TR25 is better than fixed. Add on BUIS aren't worth the money. For $85 up a red dot will do more.
It's hard to beat the price advantage of Magpul for magazines, but you could stumble across some interesting bargains, like the $4 each Brownells I picked up. Milspec Mil issue. (Now what did I do with those?)
Yes you can spend more for an AR, and those expensive AR's will deliver, but spending 2X more will not make the rifle 2X more accurate nor will it guarantee 2X more hits - only practice will do that. The law of diminishing returns kicks in, you spend more you get .5X better performance, do it again, it starts dropping.

Keep shooting one long enough, and they all look like they were a Basic Training issue rifle dragged down a gravel road with a logging chain. If you can actually use the accuracy of a great barrel and can afford one, by all means go for it. If it's a deer gun or self defense - 2 MOA will hit an 18" square center of mass inside a 6 inch group at 300m. At that point the bullet is running out of (ethical) steam for a clean drop. The MOA is fine, more than that is precision or bragging rights.
 
I've been a supporter of PSA for a first AR-15 for a while. I've been shooting mine for about 4 years and have no complaints that were not user induced. That said I generally don't shoot steel cased ammo from it. It is a mid-length gas system with a 16" barrel and some steel case ammo seems to have an issue with mid-length gas systems. My shooting partner has carbine length PSAs that shoot steel fine. I've seen rifle length ones with 20" barrels shoot it as well.
 
For your first .... I would buy one from your local gun shop that's complete. Add a Red Dot and buy some extra magazines.
Lots of great choices from about $500 to well over $2000 ....
 
I will not give you speculation or opinions on brands I know nothing about or have no hands on experience with.

What I will give you is insight into what I have, how I acquired it, and how it’s performed for me these last 10 years.

My first 2 ARs were BCM. I saved, saved, waited, and saved and waited. Bought a complete lower first. Then bought an upper. Then bcg and bolt. Then furniture. In the meantime, I bought ammo and mags. It took a while.

My 16” M4gery is my beater. The charging handle is silver, the parkerized barrel is all scuffed looking, and my tan furniture is grimy and has this soot looking stuff all over it. Probably oil and powder residue mixed with sweat.

It’s got literal thousands of rounds through it. Its maybe been actually stripped and thoroughly cleaned 3 or 4 times in the last decade. Its been shot a lot, lubed generously, and cleaned infrequently. It’s had zero issues.

My other is a 16” midlength. It’a been fired about 400 or 500 times, cleaned, oiled, and placed into storage. Not used hard, very clean, and zero issues in the rounds it’s fired which is not much.

I pretty much shoot M193 and I’ve only got the opportunity to shoot out to 300 yards. It’s not hard to put rounds onto center mass on a steel silhouette target with the aimpoint or irons if I do my part.

If starting over tomorrow or if I wanted or needed another I’d pony up and buy BCM. Even if it meant eating rice and beans for months to save enough to do it. But that’s just me.
 
Get you an economical lower (i have an anderson) and order and assemble you a kit with the best trigger you find. For first and most fun ar get a 16" upper flat too and top with a decent red dot and collapsible stock. Most fun for targets beer cans and gongs. A 2 or 300 yard gun no but fun yes.
 
Another PSA fan:

this upper:
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...er-with-bcg-ch-mbus-sight-set-5165447592.html

This lower:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/bla...r15-complete-moe-ept-stealth-lower-black.html

lower ships to an FFL. Upper ships to your home.

Pin upper and lower together, add mags and ammo. Shoot.

Be safe and have fun.

ETA: I own Daniel Defense, BCM, and Sons of Liberty Gunworks gear too. They are all superior to the PSA IMO. But i shoot the snot out of my PSA and it’s not failed me yet.
 
Anchorite said:
Ok Team, I know next to nothing about ARs. Well, I know there are different caliber options, uppers, lowers, but that’s about it.

Gas piston, direct impinge, gas block, staked, pinned, chrome lined bores….I’m lost.

That out of the way, what I’m interested in - and relying on my fellow THR enablers - is research and experience! Tell me your horror stories and what you learned the hard way.

I want a 223, preferably a 1x7 or 8 twist (so I can run the 50-77grs), carbine (16”) length, and I think mil-spec “furniture” as opposed to “commercial?”
Seems the prices are finally coming down, so probably better to buy on the dip.

Not really looking to hunt with, but might with another upper one day. Coyotes and maybe a small hog.

Budget? $1000 or just under.
Brands I’ve looked at:
Windham
CMMG
Anderson
Ruger
Smith & Wesson

More or less interested in a serious plinker that may see some neglect or occasional abuse, but not going to battle with it.
Who makes the F150 of ARs? That’s what I’m interested in. Doesn’t have to be the top-of-the-line, but rather a solid choice. What do I need and can do without?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
If you are wanting one of the best options for the money, I would get an Areo Precision complete upper and lower from their website and call it good. They make very nice stuff, and make lowers for just about everyone else out there if I recall correctly. Don't waste your money on Geissele or Daniel Defense and instead, buy ammo before it gets any more expensive... A good trigger option for a decent price would be a Rock River two stage trigger as they are about $100 or a personal favorite, the $170 CMC single stage 2.5lb trigger for a DMR type build. And of course if you can get a Fostech or Franklin Armory binary trigger, they are awesome for burning through ammo like no tomorrow, but pretty much all of the indoor ranges won't let you use the binary function... The normal function is actually decent feeling though they are about $400ish. Barrels are more of a personal preference with the coatings and such, but as long as it's not full of shop junk and shavings when you get it, it should be a good one. Sights are another personal preference thing as well. I like Magpul MBUS sights and the Leopold RDS red dot is a very good sight for the $270 it costs. Now, for magazines, just get a bunch of Magpul gen 2 30rd for $12 a piece and call it good, cause they work just as well as the gen 3 IMHO and seem to fit better in mag pouches for me. Or if you find some GI surplus mags for cheap, like $10-12 NOT $25+, then you can put Magpul replacement followers in them for very nice feeding mags. Plus they look bad ass lol.
 
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Jimster said:
View attachment 1042133 I went with an Anderson lower. No particular reason. Free float tube keeps the hot barrel from accidentally burning me. None of my parts really match but it all works just fine. ARs are like Legos. I uglied it up with a camo paint job. Dead-on accurate and never lets me down.
Click to expand...
I dont have a problem with Anderson, but with the current pricing situation, I find it to not be as good of a deal as years past... The material is the same on milspec lowers no matter what logo is on it so I usually go with the cheapest option which isn't always Anderson. I have seen Areo Precision complete lowers for almost the same price as an Anderson lately...
 
Get a Colt 6920 and shoot the hell out of it. It's not fancy, but it's right. Don't worry about barrel profiles or free float tubes or whether or not you need a forward assist or adjustable stock. By the time you're standing in a big pile of empties, those questions will have answered themselves.

Other brands like PSA are ok, but you gotta know how to troubleshoot problems or chances are you'll be back here asking how to get your AR to stop "double feeding" or some other malfunction. The good news is, once an AR of any brand is sorted out, it'll run a long time.

Or you could spend a little more and buy yourself something nice, like a Colt 6920.
 
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