School Unfairly Treated Me?

[Crunker1337]

Last year, I was given a very stern warning by school admin (after being taken down to the office by security, no less) and threatened with suspension after I had a few (three or four) pictures of guns in my notebook.
The guns were not be aimed at anyone, or even wielded by a person. There were no drawings of people on the page, and the guns weren't being fired at all. The depictions were totally non-threatening.

I've noticed that many kids walk around the same school with very realistic pictures of firearms on their shirts or apparel. Examples that I've personally observed:
2 M16s crossed
an AK variant about 2 feet long on the back of a shirt
a large pistol on the front of a shirt
a pistol belt-buckle

Now, these aren't isolated incidents. I see the same kids going to school with the same shirts over and over again without getting so much as a talking to.

I'm certainly not saying that the other kids should be punished, but why was I?

The worst thing is, I'm afraid to challenge the school or write a letter to anyone, since I'm afraid they'll suspend me. After I'm out of this miserable brain-washing center, things will be different however.

I'm more than a little disillusioned with the school and I don't think I'll ever be able to respect the way it works again. How can I deal with my feelings? I don't want to take any political actions until I'm out of this place, so I won't be sharing any information that might lead to my or my school's identification.

I'm even pretty afraid of posting this as if the school found out that it was me, I don't think they'd appreciate it.

 

[lee n. field]

What sort of school? High school, college of some sort? Public or private?

 

[Joe Demko]

Last year, I was given a very stern warning ...

What do you hope to gain? An apology? You weren't suspended or otherwise punished. Before you go any further with this, I think you better clarify to yourself exactly how you believe you were wronged and exactly what you believe would make you whole.

People from outside the district who have no children enrolled and pay no taxes to the district are engaging in wishful thinking in sending letters of opinion on this matter. Your opinion carries exactly zero weight in that district. Nor, as nearly as I can figure, should it; since you are in no way a stakeholder.

 

[Joe Demko]

No, he equates small felines with weakness.

I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. This is supposed to be the High Road and that expression isn't.

 

[blondebombshell]

i could see why the school would punish you for it. cuz they are pictures of really guns which you could easily get your hands on. as they are not wanting another school shooting to happen. but i dont understand why the other students who are wearing the tshirts with guns on them are not getting talked to or punished for wearing them

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Has the first amendment been taken out of our schools?

 

[Zundfolge]

Has the first amendment been taken out of our schools?

Yes.

School children have zero rights in school.

Crunker1337 (and all school aged folk out there) you just need to learn to keep your politically incorrect thoughts to yourself. Endure. Graduate. Then go live your life as a free American.

Until then, you are NOT free to think whatever you want inside their schools (that goes double for New Jersey).

 

[Hooptie]

I drew worse crap than that in school and no one cared.

I weep for todays youth....and I'm only 24.

I think I'll go listen to Bucky Covington....

 

[Clipper]

...So get yourself a T-shirt...

 

[Joe Demko]

School children have zero rights in school.

Absolutely untrue. Children retain all of their rights as minors. The school personnel function in loco parentis. If you would care to justify your assertion that school children have "zero rights in school" with some documentary evidence, that'd be just great. Otherwise, Crunker1337 would be well served to ignore such hyperbole and concentrate on a realistic assessment of what his rights are at school and whether or not the incident violated said rights.

 

[Arsyx]

That's how the school system is now days. Even with religion, some schools have banned the wearing of the cross and still allow Muslim students to wear their religious apparel. If you wore a t-shirt with the Glock logo on it, you'd be suspended but if you wore a Fubu shirt with a picture of a Desert Eagle on it explaining it as the man killer thugs weapon of choice than that's ok.

When I get into college I will be a ghost. I will not speak of my views on religion, politics, weapon control, or even hobbies. I'll be a loner for all I care, college just isn't the place to make friends anymore.

 

[Piedmont Plinker]

As a school child, I can pretty much guarantee that the my school, a private one, has taken away a lot of rights. I can't imagine wha public schools are like in this respect. I suspect they will take away every right they can without commiting a crime.
Remember the kid who was suspended for drawing a gun?

 

[Zundfolge]

If you would care to justify your assertion that school children have "zero rights in school" with some documentary evidence

Frederick v Morse (the "bong hits 4 Jesus" kid)

Basically school children have no right to free speech if their speech goes against the aims, belief system or political positions of the school administrators. Period.

If he insists on believing guns are anything but evil and he expresses these beliefs in school he WILL be punished (and he's lucky he got off with a warning).

Now if he was pushing for gay rights or speaking out against Christianity he'd be given wide latitude in expressing his beliefs.



At any rate, we can argue the specifics of law and legal theory, but the reality is that school children are not allowed to freely exercise their 1st amendment rights ... even if one of the occasionally wins in court, the "boots on the ground" reality is that school children that espouse politically incorrect beliefs will be punished for them.

Now if Crunker1337 wants to make a federal case out of this and pursue legal remedies, I wish him luck (and as unpredictable as our legal system has become, maybe he'll win). However if he wants practical advice that will get him through his day unmolested I say keep your head down, your mouth shut, do your homework, tell the teacher whatever lies they want to believe and go about living your life as a free American AFTER you have your sheepskin.

 

[Crunker1337]

I'm in public high school.

I'm not hoping to get an apology or anything, I'm just utterly confused as to why I was sternly warned while many others are able to wear shirts with practically the same guns that I drew on them without getting so much as a talking to.

And as for Joe Demko's comment about taxes... actually, in my area, property taxes go to school since other taxes don't get enough money to get anything done. Also, the budget has failed for years in sequentially, and NO ONE outside of the district pays for kids enrolled in the district.

I don't think I was wronged, as I wasn't even really punished, I'm just disillusioned with the way school officials think they can run things. In our conversation, the admin mentioned that on school property he can arbitrarily search lockers, backpacks, and pockets if he so wishes. That was kind of unnerving.

What confuses me the most though is that other kids can get away with wearing gun shirts but I can't draw a gun in school. That's why I think I was unfairly treated. Why was I singled out and warned, while no one else got so much as a talking to?

I don't think I was wronged, but I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything wrong either. I mean, no one got hurt or threatened.

 

[Zundfolge]

I guess my point is that you learned this lesson without any major cost;

Government has not interest in your liberty.

I also think I may be misinterpreted as saying one should never fight government overstepping its bounds ... this couldn't be further from the truth. I'm just telling you to pick your battles, and the public school system is a lost cause (at least from the perspective of a student). When you're older and contributing to the system you'll be in a better position to stop this kind of crap.

Assuming you have children someday, consider private school (which can also be oppressive, but at least the parents have more say in the various forms of oppression there ).

 

[Joe Demko]

Basically school children have no right to free speech if their speech goes against the aims, belief system or political positions of the school administrators. Period.

No. Read your own cite. This is does not support your "zero rights" assertion.

 

[TallPine]

I'm just disillusioned with the way school officials think they can run things.

Well, at least you're learning something useful

If you want to be (relatively) free, head out to the mountain/desert west the day after you graduate. Just leave all the East Coast Idears behind.

 

[Zundfolge]

No. Read your own cite. This is does not support your "zero rights" assertion.

The only way a high school student is going to have their rights recognized is at the discretion of the school administrators (thereby making them privileges instead of rights) or by going to the courts and getting lucky.

If rights don't exist 100% of the time they are not rights, they are priviledges.

Also, I said "...we can argue the specifics of law and legal theory, but the reality is that school children are not allowed to freely exercise their 1st amendment rights ... even if one of the occasionally wins in court, the "boots on the ground" reality is that school children that espouse politically incorrect beliefs will be punished for them."

So it doesn't matter if school children have some abstract "right" to free speech, the fact is that regardless of whether it is right or even legal in most cases a student that expresses some politically incorrect belief is going to get punished for it.

 

[Jeff Timm]

Oh my God.

I noted several stories about children in school who were expelled or suspended for Drawing pictures of guns.

It suddenly struck me. Could it be interpretation of policy and the ignorance of teachers and administrators? Could they not understand the difference between Drawing a gun, as from a holster or place of concealment and Drawing a gun with pencils on paper?

I'm terribly afraid I might be right.

Geoff
Who is terrified, but would not be surprised!

 

[mljdeckard]

We all got tired of high school before we left. Take a breather, and remember that you can do whatever you want in life, but there will be a whole lot more options if you choke on it a little bit more and get some more school. Higher education is the process of paying someone who may or may not actually be smarter than you to 'certify' that you learned something from them. CCW permits are honored on state school camupses in Utah.

Rights in high school? Let's see. I can pray to....wait. No I can't. I can say or print anything I wan......never mind. I can bear arms..ok, to be fair, I was not an adult in high school, but we did actually take guns to school as shop projects and actually walk them into the high school principal's office to let him look at them when we were done. (I graduated HS more than 14 years ago.) Quartering troops doesn't really apply. I signed a statement, conditional to my being allowed to attend school, that said all of my space within the school was the property of the school, and therefore subject to search. Same with self-incrimination. I can refuse to speak, and face expulsion as a result. You get the idea. They love the idea of rights. They ABSOLUTELY HATE the idea of anyone exercising their rights.

 

[shield20]

I always figure if my son (10 yrs old) gets suspended for talking about, having pictures of, or drawing guns, I would take him to the range the day he had off, including McDonalds for lunch. He likes guns, and it is a taste I encourage.

It may suck to "get in trouble", but if you get suspended for having a picture of a gun - enjoy the free time.

The other day the radio "bleeped" out the word "gun" from a song - it is such BS anymore - and it will NOT help our cause to just roll over and take such extreme intolerance, or to let others convince us OUR likes, beliefs and rights are wrong (long as they don't harm others).

 

[Joe Demko]

I can pray to....wait. No I can't.

Yes, you can. As much as you want. The school is not to require you to pray.

I can say or print anything I wan......never mind.

School publications are owned by the scool. Like any publisher, they control content. Assignments are to address assigned topics.

I signed a statement, conditional to my being allowed to attend school, that said all of my space within the school was the property of the school, and therefore subject to search.

They ARE school property. It never was your space. The majority of what should have been in it, i.e. books, was also school property. Maybe if you'd been renting that locker and purchasing books, it would've been different.

I can refuse to speak, and face expulsion as a result. You get the idea.

Or you can refuse to speak until your parent arrives. Maybe they'll want you to give your side of it. All expulsions (and most suspensions) are appealable to the supt. of schools and also then the school board in every school district where I ever taught.

Where did you guys go to school? I think you are confusing ignorance of school law with having no rights.

 

[Outlaws]

Has the first amendment been taken out of our schools?

You might want to reread the first amendment. -Namely the first 5 words.

 

[Zundfolge]

Where did you guys go to school?

USD 259 Where unless you have the blessing of the leftists in charge, you are to keep your mouth shut.

I think you are confusing ignorance of school law with having no rights.

Fine, Joe, I'll concede that as an academic abstraction, highschool students have full 1st Amendment rights.


Now, as a matter of practical application ... forget it, public schools are Gulags.

 

[Joe Demko]

Now, as a matter of practical application ... forget it, public schools are Gulags.

That is just as untrue as your earlier "zero rights" assertion. Do you really want to discuss this or do you just want to show off your fiery rhetoric?