1. Bikerdoc's passing and how you can help

    As many of you know, bikerdoc- AKA Al Spiniello- is no longer with us. There are always extra expenses when someone passes. If you would like to contribute to support his family, please do so here: Bikerdoc GoFundMe page.

    (Note - this notice can be dismissed by clicking on the X in the upper right corner.)
    Dismiss Notice

Scope Magnification: Accuracy Increase?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by WrongHanded, Sep 1, 2021.

  1. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    4,414
    Location:
    Phoenix Az
    I went back and found the text from my friend. That target is 16 inches wide and 28 inches tall. Ill change the original post. I had it confused with the closer target. One thing about the photo that the camera doesnt show, there is a holding stand that is holding the target in that photo as well. When you dont have a camera phone shoved behind a rifle scope, it's much easier to see the two pieces.
     
    Walkalong and LoonWulf like this.
  2. dcloco

    dcloco Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    667

    Agree with both of you.


    Simple challenge for each member here. Go to ANY range and observe all on the line for 15 minutes. Guarantee there will be at least one CRINGE WORTHY moment that you observe..........


    MOST don't practice of have been taught wrong.
     
    LoonWulf, Slamfire and Walkalong like this.
  3. sarduy

    sarduy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,944
    Location:
    United States of America
    14x is the spot for me.
     
    LoonWulf and dcloco like this.
  4. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    9,802
    No complaints, just doing some field craft math since you posted the photo... today’s technically my Friday, so I had a little fun instead of adulting...

    So 16” spanning 1/2mil, 889yrds ;-), far enough that I don’t want a 3-9x in my hands, for certain!
     
    LoonWulf likes this.
  5. Offfhand

    Offfhand Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,275
    Back around the late '60's, early '70's, when Silhouette shooting was getting popular in the US (Having originated in Mexico) it was commonly thought that low to medium power scopes were most suitable for offhand shooting. Redfield even introduced a 6X scope billed as their Silhouette Model. It was soon discovered and that such old style "conventional wisdom" was out of date and that higher magnification scopes offer positive advantages and higher scores. Which is why 20X and higher scopes are common in today's Silhouette competition for both rimfire and centerfire venues. With all of my Silhouette rifles, in centerfire and rimfire, in both Standard and Hunter Classes, having 24X scopes. (the color stickers on rifles and scopes are inspection stickers from Natl. Championship matches.) 21A_2848 (4).JPG 21A_2854 (3).JPG 21A_4143 (2).JPG 21A_4146 (2).JPG
     
    LoonWulf, Captcurt, Walkalong and 3 others like this.
  6. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    11,306
    Location:
    Alabama


    A higher magnification helps when you can pick your aim point through the scope. I know the F Class guys are doing that, they observe the point of impact, and hold off. They can run high magnification because the rifle is on a rest, and people have found, it is better not to monkey with the knobs, if you don't have to. Not only are scope adjustments somewhat less than 100% reliable, I have rolled the windage in the wrong direction enough times to pay more attention to this little part of sight adjustment. Too often I will see the bullet landed right (for example) and add right windage! I don't have the same problem with elevation, and I don't know why.

    I do hold off in the target face shooting Smallbore Prone with my Redfield 3200's. I have 16 X, 20X, and 24 X scopes and I actually prefer the 16X. I can still see the target rings at 100 yards, but the field of view, thus them view of mirage movement, is better, and the scope is a little brighter. Most other shooters are using 20X, but then, I don't know any modern fixed scopes less than 20X.

    I dare someone to put a 20X scope on a handgun and shoot it one handed at 25 and 50 yards. You might not ever find the target! It is all I can do to put an unmagnified Red dot on the target, and then watch it zoom about as I jerk the trigger. Until you shoot Bullseye Pistol you don't know how impossible it is.
     
    LoonWulf and dcloco like this.
  7. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    3,784
    Location:
    Ozark Mountains of Arkansas
    Exactly right. If you can't see it, you can't hit it.
     
    jmorris and LoonWulf like this.
  8. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    5,921
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I shot this with a $140 nikon prostaff 3-9x40 at 100 and I can repeat that over and over and over again with a few of my rifles that also wear 3-9x40's. If I swapped one of my 16-20x scopes onto the same rifle I would probably have to shoot at least a few groups to see any statistical change in group size. If we change the metric though to shooting a prairie dog or similar size target at 427 yards, I am going to have a hell of a time hitting it for a few reasons. 1st my crosshairs are probably like .3 moa thick at 9x, so they are going to be pretty close to covering the width of a P-dog at that range. 2nd a 3-9x40 is typically set with fixed parallax at 100 yards and if you ever set one up on a bench and check at 400 yards they will often have 4 or 5 inches of parallax movement. I've checked a whole bunch of them and it can be shocking. 3rd the turrets in my cheap nikon are not really meant to be dialing up and down and they may or may not track well enough to dial the 40 or so clicks that it will take to get me out to 427 yards with that rifle. Its not the that it lacks any clarity or won't hold an accurate zero, its just poorly suited to that task.

    Likewise a 6.5-20 is very poorly suited to the task of shooting deer at 40 yards at twilight in the woods. They make lots of different kinds of hammers for different tasks. A 3 lb sledge makes a poor tool for framing a barn just as a waffle head framing hammer does an appallingly bad job at forming sheet metal.

    3-CD1-B3-FD-A0-D2-4800-8-B84-7-E5-AB2-C6321-F.jpg
     
    LoonWulf and WrongHanded like this.
  9. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    4,844
    Location:
    Justin, TX
    I’ve never shot at anything past around 400 yards, target or animal.
    My only frame of reference is at 200-300 yards, with my Leupold, Meopta and Zeiss scopes, I can see the target better at 9x or 10x than I can with friends scopes at 15-20x. The caveat being my friends scopes cost less or about the same as my scopes.
     
    LoonWulf likes this.
  10. dcloco

    dcloco Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2006
    Messages:
    667
    Need to start over with a question.

    Distance and size of target you are requesting help with? Centerfire or rimfire?

    I do NOT shoot benchrest, I do shoot less expensive to reasonably priced long boom sticks. I am out there, in ALL conditions. Prairie dog, deer, targets. 35 yards to 1100. At the end of the day, I end up at 10-14x if weather is good (no cold or heat waves).

    Benchrest is an entirely different game than trying to hunt.
     
    LoonWulf likes this.
  11. MCMXI
    • Contributing Member

    MCMXI Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    9,218
    Location:
    NW
    I have astigmatism too and recently bought a Vortex 3x magnifier to put in front of an Aimpoint CompM4s. I was amazed to see the squiggle turn into a nice clear and round dot when viewed through the magnifier. I plan on buying more for other Aimpoint optics on ARs and CZs.
     
    LoonWulf likes this.
  12. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    18,302
    Sometimes you can.

     
  13. Nature Boy
    • Contributing Member

    Nature Boy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    Messages:
    6,325
    You mean they aren’t supposed to be squiggly?
     
  14. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2016
    Messages:
    9,802
    I call mine “BSS” instead of “RDS.” Mine aren’t Red Dots - they’re Bug Splats.
     
    MCMXI, LoonWulf and Nature Boy like this.
  15. MCMXI
    • Contributing Member

    MCMXI Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    9,218
    Location:
    NW
    Well, so I'm told. All I know is that the Vortex magnifier reveals a circular dot that I've never seen before. :D If that's what good eyes see without a magnifier then I've certainly been missing the show.
     
    LoonWulf and Nature Boy like this.
  16. Nature Boy
    • Contributing Member

    Nature Boy Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    Messages:
    6,325
    I’ve had a astigmatism since I was a senior in high school and I don’t think it has ever been fully compensated for with Rx lenses. Squiggly is just something I live with. Nice to know it doesn’t have to be that way
     
    LoonWulf and MCMXI like this.
  17. MCMXI
    • Contributing Member

    MCMXI Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    9,218
    Location:
    NW
    Now I feel some pressure. :p Hopefully someone else can chime in and confirm what I observed after installing a Vortex MICRO3X behind an Aimpoint CompM4s. What I like about the magnifier set up is that it's on a .300 Blackout that I typically shoot suppressed/subsonic at 50 yards and in, but the sharper, albeit larger dot allows me a more precise aim when shooting supersonic ammunition a bit further out.
     
    LoonWulf likes this.
  18. LoonWulf
    • Contributing Member

    LoonWulf Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Whoever smashed the glow bugs in my sights was right-handed and used an upwards swing.....

    Another thing that helps me to get a clear dot is looking thru my rear buis. I do that when Target shooting or hunting with red dot ar.....
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
    Varminterror and Nature Boy like this.
  19. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    15,037
    Location:
    Georgia
    Ahh, but you can see it. The key is the target. The center of a circle is exactly the same size regardless. When I shoot at the range I make my own targets. At 100 and 200 yards I use 1" stick on circles as aiming points on large sheets of paper. At 300 yards I use either 2" or 3" circles. That is as far as my range goes, but I have shot out to 600 yards in the past in a pasture and have been to a range a few times where I could shoot to 600 yards. At longer ranges, the aiming point is just larger.

    When looking through my scopes set on either 9X or 10X I can easily put the cross hairs in the center of a 1" aiming point at 100 yards with any scope I have. The ones with very fine cross hairs will not completely cover the 1" aiming point at 200 yards. The crosshairs on most hunting scopes are thicker and will completely cover a 1" circle at 200 yards.

    As long as the aiming point is proportionally larger as ranges increase the view through my scope is the same with a 1" aiming point at 100 as a 6" aiming point at 600 or a 10" aiming point at 1000. And it is easy enough to center the crosshair in the middle of the aiming point.

    In fact most longer ranges use aiming points much larger than that. The 600 yard range where I shoot uses 36" aiming points at 600 yards. Guys shoot at 600 with irons. They place the top of the front sight at the bottom arc of the 36" aiming point, they are zeroed so the bullet will impact 18" above POA. Which should be in the center of the aiming point.

    I have no problems using my fixed power 6X scope with an aiming point that big. I found it easy to center the cross hair in the middle of the 36" aiming point. Or better yet, hold at the top of the arc and adjust sights to hit 18" low at that range. No that isn't 1000 yards, but if I can do it at 600 with a 6X scope, it can be done at 1000 with a 10X scope.

    Where more magnification is most helpful is when you cannot get the aiming point proportionally larger as range increases. For a varmint hunter a prairie dog is the same size at 100 yards as at 400 yards. You're going to need more magnification at some point because you can't see the target.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice