SCOTUS denies cert on two 2A cases.

Just wait. I'm bracing for Virginia, next year, to enact the previously introduced (and defeated by one vote) AWB with no grandfathering. If a challenge to that makes it to the Supreme Court, it will be on 5th Amendment "taking" grounds and not 2nd Amendment grounds.

The 9th circuit denied the same fifth amendment claim in Duncan with respect to +10 round magazines since it allowed for their sale prior to the law taking affect. That's currently enjoined but, whatever. That may not be the best bellwether for how other courts will look at similar claims, but there's at least one instance of it being rejected.

Beyond state bans, it should be assumed that the supreme court's refusal to weigh in on AWBs will inspire a post-Trump congress to write a newer, "better" Federal AWB when that pendulum swings back.
 
Maybe the justices aren't this tactical with their cert. votes, or maybe circuit judges don't pay any attention to them when deciding cases. But this is what I was thinking when I read the vote breakdown and Kavanaugh's statement.

With so many requests, it's hard for me to believe scotus is putting this much strategy into all these cert. decisions. I'm an unabashed cynic so I think the formula is much simpler; We threw gunowners a bone with hearing Vanderstok, so we met the 2A quota for the session. The court seems more apt to take softball cases that don't really advance core principals of the 2A, nor clarify what's left still hanging way back in Heller.

I also think Thomas is the only 100% of the nine justices when it comes to the 2A. He was the only one to find a path to 2A rights even for convicted DV scumbags, while the rest of the robed clan was ok with things not "being trapped in amber". But that said, this is still likely the best court we'll ever get to put these 2A cases forward... perfection being the enemy of progress and all that jazz.
 
Just wait for the magic moment - yet again. Folks, it's cognitive dissonance. Well intentioned but they could have taken the case. There is no new information. Arguing that it is this or that procedure or custom is all well and good. However, the idea we will see relief is not probable.
 
Just my uninformed opinion, but Roberts has been moving left of center for some time now, Coney-Barrett had a mediocre 2A record prior to being a Supreme, and Kavanaugh's lackluster opinion of maybe getting relief in 1-2 years sounds like SCOTUS speak for maybe 5 years to never.
 
When Ciitizens United was decided, Obama flat out told Roberts that it was BS (in Obama's view - but not our issue here). I wonder if the current President might take to the bully pulpit to give a similar message to his 'acolytes' on Scotus? Waiting, waiting ---
 
There is not currently a circuit split between the circuits on whether "assault weapons" bans are constitutional (at least not to my knowledge). Any time we get a ray of hope in a panel decision, the courts reconsider en banc and uphold the laws. So, from a purely institutional perspective, there is less reason for SCOTUS to grant review. That, I think, is significant to the Chief Justice in particular, and also maybe to Barrett. I think both of those justices would be hesitant, purely from a temperament perspective, to buck a "universal" view of the courts of appeal if the Court granted cert. and heardthe case. So, I think that explains Kavanaugh's vote to deny certiorari.

Okay, but then why write about it? To signal to lower courts that now is the time to create the circuit split, if it can happen. Counting noses from this, you've probably got four votes to overturn outright AWB bans. If he voted not to hear the case but said nothing, folks would speculate he may have gotten squishy on it. By saying something, he reiterates that he hasn't. And by referencing the desire to have other courts weigh in, I think he's saying they need (or at least really want) a lower court appellate court opinion invalidating an AWB if they are going to persuade Roberts or Barrett. Thomas' repeated opinions and Kavanaugh's statement provide a permission structure of sorts for lower courts to go ahead and take that step, if there's anyone on the fence.

There is an unfortunate tendency for the politics of Circuit Courts of Appeal to match the states they represent. Look at the Ninth Circuit (CA, OR, WA, HI) vs Fifth Circuit (TX, LA, MS). A circuit split is unlikely, because pro-2A states don't pass AW bans, so their Circuit Courts don't get AW ban cases to overturn

There is, however, a huge split between the Fourth Circuit and SCOTUS on Snope. It was GVRed back to the Fourth so that they could reconsider the case in light of Bruen. They ignored Bruen and basically gave SCOTUS the finger. SCOTUS is going to have to do something about it if they want the word "Supreme" to mean anything.
 
IMHO, non legal opinion, returning cases so the lower court gets it right is simple BS and done on purpose to NOT support the issue. If you know the lower decision is flawed, who cares about scolding them. You know they won't reconsider in a different way. Just take it and do it. The decision does not have to be pages of babble. Say according to Bruen, this or that law is unconstitutional - now let's order a pizza. Bans on semi auto weapons of any configuration or capacity and magazines of any capacity are unconstitutional. Exhorbitant fees or licensing to interfer with owning them are unconstitutional. Who wants a meat eater or a white clam?

The votes aren't there. We need to get over it with the current court. Looking for the magic hint that might be - blah, blah.
 
When Ciitizens United was decided, Obama flat out told Roberts that it was BS (in Obama's view - but not our issue here). I wonder if the current President might take to the bully pulpit to give a similar message to his 'acolytes' on Scotus? Waiting, waiting ---
Trump has been badmouthing SCOTUS for a while now.



 
There is an unfortunate tendency for the politics of Circuit Courts of Appeal to match the states they represent. Look at the Ninth Circuit (CA, OR, WA, HI) vs Fifth Circuit (TX, LA, MS). A circuit split is unlikely, because pro-2A states don't pass AW bans, so their Circuit Courts don't get AW ban cases to overturn

There is, however, a huge split between the Fourth Circuit and SCOTUS on Snope. It was GVRed back to the Fourth so that they could reconsider the case in light of Bruen. They ignored Bruen and basically gave SCOTUS the finger. SCOTUS is going to have to do something about it if they want the word "Supreme" to mean anything.
The 11th Circuit is garbage on gun rights yet the majority of states are pro-gun.

The 5th ruled under-21 purchase bans are unconstitutional while the 11th ruled they are. Circuit court split on that issue right there.
 
I don't care if Trump is upset because a Justice doesn't like his autocratic ego trip. He needs to be speak on the current poop show.
 
Guns are a polarizing issue. Some members of the Court (ahem, Roberts) are afraid to take any definitive stance on guns, because no matter what they do, it will anger some large slice of the population. And they are worried about how history will judge them. So the safest course is to continually kick the can down the road. I think this explains everything regarding the Supreme Court and guns.
 
Guns are a polarizing issue. Some members of the Court (ahem, Roberts) are afraid to take any definitive stance on guns, because no matter what they do, it will anger some large slice of the population. And they are worried about how history will judge them. So the safest course is to continually kick the can down the road. I think this explains everything regarding the Supreme Court and guns.
Racism, bigotry, sexism, classism, xenophobia, authoritarianism, etc. All of those are polarizing issues to. Doesn't stop the court from tackling those issues.

Look at the Dobbs decision. Look at how Roberts will go down in history for that.
 
Even the supposedly pro-gun decisions such as Heller and Bruen didn't really settle anything. Just opened the way for further litigation. Heller in fact is full of quotes that are being used by the antigunners.
 
It has been "suggested" elsewhere that there are at least 2 reasons for these cases not getting cert. One of those reasons is that these 2 cases are still undecided/incomplete at lower court levels and, because of that, it has been opined that the SC doesn't like to take on these "interlocutory" cases. The other opinion, partly based on the first, is that the SC is waiting to see if that heinous ILL-ANNOY law PICA, while still before "Eastercrook" and the 7th Circuit, is closer to being ready to go before the SC. The problem is the manner in which the 7th "sits" on cases, delaying them to ridiculous lengths. The 7th MAY be sitting on PICA in the hopes that the make-up of the SC changes in the near future.
 
The 11th Circuit is garbage on gun rights yet the majority of states are pro-gun.
That's why I called it a "tendency".
The 5th ruled under-21 purchase bans are unconstitutional while the 11th ruled they are. Circuit court split on that issue right there.
Then we may get cert on an under-21 case to resolve the split. I wouldn't count on getting one on AW bans though because of a circuit split though. What should be driving SCOTUS to grant cert to Snope is the huge split between the Fourth Circuit's decision and SCOTUS rulings in Heller, Bruen, Caetano, etc.
 
That's why I called it a "tendency".

Then we may get cert on an under-21 case to resolve the split. I wouldn't count on getting one on AW bans though because of a circuit split though. What should be driving SCOTUS to grant cert to Snope is the huge split between the Fourth Circuit's decision and SCOTUS rulings in Heller, Bruen, Caetano, etc.

I think we'll still get an AWB case soonish in SCOTUS because of this.

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In it, Justice Elena Kagan wrote the opinion for a unanimous court explaining why the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, but the real big part was this:

“Mexico focuses on production of ‘military style’ assault weapons, but these products are widely legal and purchased by ordinary consumers.”

That is massive for the common use test created by Caetano v. Massachusetts. It lends further evidence that ARs and other modern firearms are protected by the Second Amendment.
 
"I don't know about you guys, I am getting frustrated at slow pace of judicial progress to defend/protect our constitutional rights. What about you?"
Absolutely. And one problem is that our legislators do not take their oaths re defending the Constitution and have a "let G-d (SCOTUS) sort it out" attitude. Some of this is due to the previously prevailing "interest balancing" concept.

While there may be legitimate questions as to "Constitutionality" while on the floor, some patently obvious, things that are unconstitutional on their face ("facially unconstitutional") by a reading in plain English, get through on that premise.

And for the most part, once they're law, we're stuck with them until SCOTUS finally can't wiggle / squirm / weasel out of reviewing them.

I used to dream of some official Committee with the muscle to put the full squealing smoking brakes on proposed outrageous legislation before it got to the floor, but don't see how to do that.

Terry. 230RN
 
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That is massive for the common use test created by Caetano v. Massachusetts. It lends further evidence that ARs and other modern firearms are protected by the Second Amendment.
The "common use" test is a logical dead end, and ultimately not helpful to the pro-gun cause. That's because the government can outlaw something, and then after a few years claim that it's not in "common use." (Which is exactly what happened with machine guns and the NFA.) And anyway, under an originalist reading of the 2nd Amendment, the test should be "in common use by the military," not "in common use among civilians."
 
The "common use" test is a logical dead end, and ultimately not helpful to the pro-gun cause. That's because the government can outlaw something, and then after a few years claim that it's not in "common use." (Which is exactly what happened with machine guns and the NFA.) And anyway, under an originalist reading of the 2nd Amendment, the test should be "in common use by the military," not "in common use among civilians."
You are just a downer man. What you want and how reality works are two different ways. RIGHT NOW, this is about the HUGEST dicta on guns to ever come out of SCOTUS in .... FOREVER. Remember, the AR–15 is the most popular rifle in the country....

Mexico here focuses on the manufacturers’ production of “military style” assault weapons, among which it includes AR–15 rifles, AK–47 rifles, and .50 caliber sniper rifles. ... But those products are both widely legal and bought by many ordinary consumers.


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Common use isn't the high hurdle to clear in recent AWB cases. The issue isn't the Heller sniff test. The issue is the portions of Bruen which relate to historical analogues. The courts are stretching "text/history/tradition" to the extreme, and coming up with historical laws that reflect a tradition to regulate dangerous weapons (things like the Bowie knife example), and saying that's good enough precedent to apply the same treatment to AWs.

Kagan's comments aren't some gotcha that's going to turn everything on its head because it doesn't even address the reason why we keep losing AWB cases.
 
under an originalist reading of the 2nd Amendment, the test should be "in common use by the military," not "in common use among civilians."
No. The militia has always been composed of civilians. Heller was quite clear on this point:

The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.

Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47. (f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation. Neither United States v. Cruikshank, ... nor Presser v. Illinois, ...refutes the individual rights interpretation. United States v. Miller, ....does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes.
 
All this rhetoric is just dandy, let's burn through to the underlying issue. Despite what Heller, this one and/or Bruen said, esp. about dangerousness or common usage - Two or three of the conservative justices (ahem) think the guns are too dangerous for the general public. This is in their personal beliefs. Thus, they don't want grant cert. Same about concealed carry restrictions, they are for it but buy into the common BS locale bans and extreme licensing procedures. All this talk is angels on the head of a pin. Oh, if only the magic case with the magic words will come forth and all will be well! Nope.
 
All this rhetoric is just dandy, let's burn through to the underlying issue. Despite what Heller, this one and/or Bruen said, esp. about dangerousness or common usage - Two or three of the conservative justices (ahem) think the guns are too dangerous for the general public. This is in their personal beliefs. Thus, they don't want grant cert. Same about concealed carry restrictions, they are for it but buy into the common BS locale bans and extreme licensing procedures. All this talk is angels on the head of a pin. Oh, if only the magic case with the magic words will come forth and all will be well! Nope.
Florida's Republicans are the prime example today. They'll all championing the sacrifices made during D-Day. Yet the very men who stormed the beaches, many were under the age of 21. Florida's Republicans refused to repeal the Under-21 Gun Purchase Ban.

Let this sink in on June 6.

People like Audie Murphy would be barred from buying a rifle from the CMP today in Florida.

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