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Scout rifle proliferation

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by fireside44, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

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    They keep making more and more scout labeled rifles and scout-like rifles, yet functionally there is little a modern semi auto can't do better so I'm failing to see any point here. Was looking at a new Savage scout. 16" barrel in .308. Whats the point of that caliber in a barrel that short? Utterly no advantage to these unless you have to travel to Alaska via Canada or live in some place with restrictive gun laws. Maybe a lighter weight beater bolt gun for bears with a short barrel you won't stick in the dirt while you are out in the woods being more focused on non-gun activities? Why not a 12 gauge then? Tell me why these are proliferating when functionally they are relics. Just selling stuff with more marketing than functionality is my guess. Any AR-15, AR-10, FAL, AK makes a better scout rifle except occasionally in the weight department and perhaps a side by side accuracy comparison (even though tack driving isn't what a scout is supposed to be for anyway).
     
  2. DocRock

    DocRock Member

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    People buy "Truck Nutz" apparently.

    There's one born every minute.
     
  3. Alaskan Ironworker

    Alaskan Ironworker Member

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    Some of us just truly like bolt rifles, no matter how many autos are out there. Bolts still rule in the reliability department as far as im concerned.
     
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  4. JeeperCreeper

    JeeperCreeper Member

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    I thought the "scout rifle" fad kinda died down over the last few years.

    Having said that, a lightweight bolt gun with irons is awesome. Don't really care for the scout scope.
     
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  5. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

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    That can be said about many products. As far as firearms go, scout rifles are vastly more functional than some others currently marketed.
     
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  6. fpgt72

    fpgt72 Member

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    And AR's as well as 1022's

    I will go hide now.
     
  7. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    Substitute single action revolver for scout rifle*. A bunch of people are still buying those newly made "relics", too. :eek:

    *Or any bolt action rifle with sights.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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  8. forty_caliber
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    forty_caliber Contributing Member

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    Never cared much for the term Scout Rifle. It's been a while (never) since I've had to "scout" enemy positions or find out where the bad guys are bivouaced. Essentially the same rifle in lever action would be a "saddle" rifle. It's also been a long while since I've hunted horseback and needed to carry my "saddle" rifle in a scabbard but I have actually done this one. Maybe getting a rifle in and out of the truck frequently would be a really good use for one of these today....say working a farm and popping coyotes and bobcats as the day goes by.

    Point is there may be a niche market for some of these items and some people may need and use the "features". I think the marketing point that others have made are spot on. Give the item a special pigeon hole name and see how many sell.

    .40
     
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  9. jamesjames

    jamesjames Member

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    Like a sports car or a speed boat. There is a romance to the idea of having one. Memorialized in The Art of the Rifle, it’s an idea that persists. If you have an AR (or 5) or a lever gun (or 5), you don’t need a bolt action scout rifle. If you are new to shooting and want to try the romance of s scout rifle, knock yourself out.

    But like a sports car or a boat, oftentimes the 2 best days of your ownership experience is the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
     
  10. gotboostvr

    gotboostvr Member

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    I like light, handy iron sighted rifles of all kinds.

    My biggest complaint of "scout" rifles is the forward mounted scope, but in the case of my R92 I didn't have much option and while not ideal I've learned to live with it.

    308win out of a 16-18 tube is still moving considerably faster than say a 7.62x39. Although something like 338Fed or 358Win would be more suited I believe.
     
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  11. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    They’re not. That simple.

    Scout rifles make up an exceptionally small percentage of firearms sales. There’s a small contingent of rabid Cooper fans who believe, whole-heartedly, in the principles of a scout rifle, and there is a small contingent of us firearm accumulators who buy just about everything just to have it, and find scout rifles to be a fun escape from the normal glassed stickshift or gasser. But overall, scouts are a ridiculously small footnote on the firearm sales ledger.
     
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  12. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

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    You're wrong. Five years ago we had the Ruger gunsite scout and the Steyr in 308. Then Savage put in a 20" model. Now Savage has a 16" scout but several other 16-18" bolt guns that are by and large scout rifles but are missing one or two small features like the forward scope mount. 110 Scout, 110 Haymaker, and 110 Brush Hunter. Mossberg has the MVP scout and patrol available in 308 and 223. Even lever gun Marlin is marketing it's 45-70 stainless short barrel lever as a scout rifle. Steyr still has their scout. Ruger making numerous versions of their scout. Springfield is even selling a M1A semi auto marked as a scout. CVA has a "scout", a dang single shot. Also, many of these scouts are now available in 450 Bushmaster along with the 308. I think that about covers it for now. So yes, they are proliferating because apparently marketing is causing people to buy scout labeled rifles. For similar asking prices as a quality AR or AK no less....
     
  13. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    As I said in my first - there’s a cult following of Coopers, particularly ardent are those in the “prepper community” of tinfoil hat wearers, which still hang onto the idea of a scout rifle.

    But as I also said in my first, they’re a long ways from a significant portion of the firearms market.
     
  14. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    I used to own a Steyr Scout and miss that little rifle quite a bit. Albeit with a conventionally mounted optic on it. Didn’t like the scout scope, and with today’s low power variables that go down to a true 1X I see no reason to burden the rifle with an inferior optic anyway.

    Put me down in the camp that likes a relatively light, compact bolt gun in a capable chambering. If it also has a built in bipod (more useful than I thought it would be), and spare magazine storage on the rifle even better. Mine was a good little hunting rig, would have been very useful in and out of a vehicle, and didn’t get in the way if you just needed a long gun while you went about other outdoor business.

    I’d like to get another one, and put a top quality 1-8 on top of it. That would be a slick little general purpose .308 rifle.
     
  15. fpgt72

    fpgt72 Member

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    I am starting to wonder if we are all using the same definition of "scout rifle".
     
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  16. edapp

    edapp Member

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    I will always prefer a bolt action to a semi auto. Cant really say why.... reliability..simplicity, safety... no special magazines... less likely to aimlessly blast through ammo.

    If my AR's were worth anything I would likely have sold them all by now.
     
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  17. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    If by staying with a strict adherence to Cooper’s definition probably not. However Cooper was an opinionated ass with an inflated sense of self importance, so I see no need to stay within the confines of his definition.
     
  18. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

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    Because stocking additional food, fuel, ammo, and other supplies means subscribing to conspiracy theories? Better check yourself next time you throw a second can of Maxwell House into the pantry or buy a few extra rolls of charmin, lol.

    There is no definition, it's a marketing term. Like "tactical". Attributed to Cooper but if we were really selecting a rifle for Scouting work in the 21st century I can't imagine a bolt gun being part of the equation. Ok, maybe for scouting a hunting area where a gun isn't even really expected to see use? How about a pistol instead then?

    Lol, I don't think the manufacturers care about his opinion either. They just want to sell stuff to people! More Scout-like models! We used to just call them carbines, but Scout sounds so much more awesome!
     
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  19. fpgt72

    fpgt72 Member

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    Depends on the bolt gun, some do have special magazines, some have special clips....it really is all over the place.
     
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  20. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    If I was to replace the laminated stock on my Ruger GSR with the synthetic one I would just make Cooper's weight. However, I like the way mine looks, and haven't found the fact that it weighs a bit more than the "standard" to be a liability. Yes, it does have the forward mounted scope, a Leupold LER in QD mounts.

    Why do I have one? Because it is a pretty good knocking around gun. Possibly not the best for any particular situation, but good enough, handy enough, and just plain fun.
     
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  21. boom boom
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    boom boom Contributing Member

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    One reason is that semi-autos have become a bit more difficult to purchase in certain states. Thus, those concerned about such things have migrated to short and handy bolt action rifles. Another is that the firearm market is prone to trends because these are durable goods and to get someone to buy something new requires well some new product to sell.
     
  22. IdaD

    IdaD Member

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    Same. Most AR's are also just 223/556 which would be useless to me. I don't have any "scout rifles" although my Model 7 probably comes somewhat close to that definition, and it's chambered in 7mm-08. I do think it would be cool if it could run detachable magazines. Not that I would ever need that feature for hunting, but it would make it a little more versatile in some ways. Come to think of it I don't actually have any centerfire rifles that use detachable magazines.
     
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  23. Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger Member

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    Well a quick look at what modern military scouts use, a bolt gun is still very much in the mix. These days probably a .300 WM with a 25”-26” bbl, suppressor, and in a big beefy AI stock wearing serious glass. The other guys in the section will be rocking M4’s and maybe a gas gun 7.62 NATO like a KAC SR-25 for other distance work that you don’t need a .300 WM for. They also will have a bunch of radios, observation optics, and designators for guiding aircraft launched weapons. Plus body armor, packs, ammo, water, food etc.

    I’m 15 years removed from doing the infantry thing in a combat zone, but can confirm that all of that crap is heavy and that it’s a young mans game for the most part. So this notion of “scouting” that some people have who probably don’t know what it is, and are not and probably were never in shape to do it is amusing. Let’s just say that if you’re a scout, your main weapon is that radio especially if you’re trained for calling in air and arty and mortars depending on what assets you have to work with, and your theater ROE’s. Giving your position away getting into a gun battle is not generally your highest priority.
     
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  24. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    A fool always has a means to justify foolishness.

    The fact I crap every day, predicating necessary and prudent replacement of toilet paper describes a very different statistical probability than my need for an extra 1,000 gallons of fuel and 6month supply of C rations.

    I worked with a few die-hard preppers at my last job. When they mocked my “lack of preparedness,” I commented, my preparedness plan only needs two things, and I already have both: 1 bullet, and your location.”

    I built a scout rifle 20yrs ago as a then-naive-fan of Cooper’s. I bought the Frontier when Ruger dropped it, and I have used forward bases on several DGR heavy rifles over the years. I have a GSR, and two 1895’s with the XS mounts (one added aftermarket, one bought so). But experience has proven, the gimmick is that. Back up irons aren’t so common on any rifle any more, but irons on a high powered rifle never made much sense to me, and I’ve broken more sight blades than I ever have optics. Stripper clips are a fool’s errand in 2019, dbm’s are here, available, and proven. But they generally do what a bolt action rifle should do, and guys will take them out and shoot them, which is always a good thing. I feel bad for folks stuck in unconstitutional states which don’t allow proper firearms for self defense, and in such locations, I concede, a short barreled bolt action rifle with a detachable magazine is a better choice than a pointy stick. But there’s no mass market for the scout rifle in 2019.

    Scout rigs are fun, and they’re different. Not so different in principle than owning a 9mm carbine, or a combination rifle, derringer or buntline carbine, or almost anything Kel-Tec sells. Not the best choice for anything, but alas, a good time.
     
  25. fireside44

    fireside44 Member

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    Carbines.

    I started coming across all these new scout rifles because I was looking for a camping gun that is easy to carry in the rhubarb and rarely gets shot, gets dirty, doesn't get much cleaning, and can dispatch a bear with one decent placed shot. And perhaps a little less hassle when crossing anti-states. The old lady is petrified of bears coming into camp. 5.56 and x39 don't seem to fit that bill to well. AR-10's are available in the scout rifle price range but then mags and accessories have a malicious way of adding cost and they are less carry friendly. I just won't buy a 308 bolt in a 16" barrel, it's silly short, and I only want a forward mounted rail if the plan is a good red dot not a scope. Most of these scout rifles seem more geared towards selling AR guys a bolt gun rather than building a gun that is idealized for real scouting, hiking, camping, etc. More tactical, less practical.

    Sounds like you mean a scout sniper, not just a scout. And he has the advantage of having a bunch of guys with the modern scout rifle, the M-4 carbine, in his squad.

    When hard times hit I went through much of the stored canned goods, rice, etc. A couple months worth. Doesn't have to be doomsday, how about losing a job or one of the household breadwinners get sick? When hard times hit having 50 gallons of extra fuel got me through to payday. I have no beef with someone who buys 1000 gallons of fuel when prices are down. What difference is it if it's tin foil hat driven vs needing fuel for the tractor? What about statistical probability of needing an extra 1000 rounds of ammo, hmm? You ever order a case bro? Don't be quick to call people fools.

    Yeah, and you need 10x his manpower to guarantee you can overrun his fortified location with success. Good luck.
     
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