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Seattle CCW Incident

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Unisaw, Oct 7, 2006.

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  1. Unisaw

    Unisaw Member

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    Man fatally shot at midday in Westlake Plaza

    By Jonathan Martin
    Seattle Times staff reporter

    A man was fatally shot just before noon today at Westlake Plaza in Seattle's high-end downtown shopping district after assaulting a random pedestrian.

    After a day of investigation, Seattle Police determined the shooting was a bizarre case of self-defense.

    The shooter, described as a balding man in a black leather jacket, was arrested, questioned, then released by detectives. His name was withheld by police.

    The deceased man, described by witnesses as a man in his early 20s wearing a yellow shirt, died of a gunshot wound to his abdomen after being taken to Harborview Medical Center. The King County Medical Examiner was trying to determine his name, but the man was not carrying any identifying information.

    At about 11 a.m. on Saturday, Seattle police received a 911 call about a man in a yellow shirt acting erratically and "verbally harassing" passing pedestrians near Pike Street and Boren Avenue, said Seattle Police spokeswoman Deb Brown.

    A half-hour later, the man apparently had moved on to Westlake Plaza, where he continued to scream at pedestrians, said Brown. One of his targets was the shooter, who had just finished lunch in the area.

    The man in the yellow shirt attacked the shooter, punching and kicking him until the shooter pulled out a concealed weapon and fired a single shot. Witnesses said the shooter fired after being knocked down.

    Afterward, the shooter sat down on a planter and handed his gun to police officers when they arrived. The man had a legal gun permit, said Brown.

    The shooting, at 11:33 a.m., stunned shoppers who jammed the stone-paved streets of Seattle's retail core.

    It will be up to King County prosecutors to determine whether the shooter faces charges. But after interviewing the man and several other witnesses, detectives decided to not book him into the King County Jail. "It could be considered a justifiable homicide," said Assistant Police Chief Jim Pugel.

    Jonathan Martin: 206-464-2605 or jmartin@seattletimes.com
     
  2. FPrice

    FPrice Member

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    Bizarre???

    After being attacked and knocked down I would think it would be justified as the Assistant Chief said, not bizarre.
     
  3. SAG0282

    SAG0282 Member

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    Yeah I'm struggling to understand the use of the word "bizarre" here. My guess is that as facts become available, we will find that the deceased is well-known to local law enforcement there.
     
  4. Wes Janson

    Wes Janson Member

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    Me wonders why half an hour went by after getting a "crazy person" call, without anyone showing up to check out the situation.
     
  5. Black Majik

    Black Majik Member

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    Effective case of one shot stop. Must have been a .45. :evil:
     
  6. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Member

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    Moral of story: Don't mess with bald guys in leather jackets.
     
  7. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin member

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    Because, like here in PDX, if there in not an immediate active threat to a life the average response time is about 2-3 hours. This does not count the aveage 15-20 minute wait to talk to a 911 operator.

    This is one of those examples where some people will say "if the guys was screaming at people and acting crazy the shooter should have avoided the area or ran away when the guy pushed him down". I will never understand those people.
     
  8. yongxingfreesty

    yongxingfreesty Member

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    heh, that .45 sure is a one hitter quitter
     
  9. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin member

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    Since the guy died later at a local hospital it could have been anything from a .22 on up.
     
  10. 44Brent

    44Brent Member

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    I work in the area and have noticed that there are a lot of mentally ill people walking the streets. About once a week I will see a street person screaming at other people. Everyday I see at least one street person talking to themselves (usually cursing).
     
  11. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Member

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    What more could he do?

    What more could this man have done...waited to be shot first? "Do not fire until fired upon!"

    Wow, given that one-shot stop, I'll bet he was using a Glock 17 with +P+ 9mms. :)

    Doc2005
     
  12. Unisaw

    Unisaw Member

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    The Seattle Times has now updated the article. It still describes the incident as bizarre, but you've gotta love the headline:


    Victim fatally shoots downtown assailant
    By Jonathan Martin

    Seattle Times staff reporter

    A bizarre case of what appeared to be justifiable homicide rattled the heart of Seattle's swanky downtown shopping district late Saturday morning.

    Seattle police are still piecing together what happened, but this much is known: A young man was killed on the crowded sidewalk outside Westlake Center, and the confessed shooter was allowed to walk out of a police station.

    The case, according to police and witnesses, began at 11 a.m. Saturday with a 911 call.

    Witnesses reported a man in a yellow shirt acting erratically, insulting and threatening passing pedestrians at Pike Street and Boren Avenue near the Washington State Convention and Trade Center, said Seattle police spokeswoman Deb Brown.

    A half-hour later, a man matching the same description was reported near Westlake Center. At the same time, a second man, described by witnesses as balding and wearing a leather jacket, was walking through the nearby plaza after finishing his lunch.

    Neither man's identity was released by police on Saturday.

    The man in the yellow shirt apparently focused in on the second man, saying, "I am going to kill you," Brown said. He then began punching and kicking the second man until the man fell to the sidewalk.

    "He was down there, minding his own business. There is nothing to think he was anything but a random target," Brown said.

    The victim happened to have a concealed-weapons permit, Brown said, and he was carrying a handgun. He pulled out the gun and fired once, hitting his attacker in the abdomen.

    "It looked to me like he shot him in self-defense," said Linda Vu, who was across the street from the shooting, handing out fliers for political activist Lyndon LaRouche. "It's kind of crazy."




    The man in the yellow shirt died after being taken to Harborview Medical Center. The King County Medical Examiner was trying to determine his identity, a task complicated by the fact that the man carried no identification.

    Several nearby Seattle police officers heard the gunshot. When they arrived at the shooting scene, the victim, sitting on a streetside planter full of purple pansies, handed the gun to them and said, "I am the one who did this," according to Assistant Police Chief Jim Pugel.

    The man was arrested, but after questioning him and other witnesses, detectives determined they did not have probable cause to book him into the King County Jail. The man was released. Police said they were withholding his name as a crime victim — of the assault.

    It will be up to the county prosecutor to determine whether the man will face charges. But Pugel said, "It could be considered justifiable homicide."

    The shooting stunned Jim and Edith Welsh, tourists from Australia who'd just left the Nordstrom store across the street when police arrived. Peering across the police tape draped across Pine Street, Welsh hugged his wife. "I think we're going back to our hotel right now," he said.

    Jonathan Martin: 206-464-2605 or jmartin@seattletimes.com
     
  13. Travis Lee

    Travis Lee Member

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    Hope he kept his mouth shut til he got an attorney.

    Police didn't arrest Harold Fish, Either.

    --Travis--
     
  14. Unisaw

    Unisaw Member

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    I hope the shooter wasn't someone on this board. If he is like most people, he is devastasted by this incident.
     
  15. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Member

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    Well, the guy will almost certainly have several thousand dollars in legal bills, if he doesn't wind up in jail (like Fish did). :uhoh:

    Leaving the area, or using less-lethal methods of defense are often preferable, as well as much cheaper.
     
  16. tenbase

    tenbase Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  17. Huddog

    Huddog Member

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    Seattle Times at least seems to have figured out who the "victim" was in this incident. Lets send good wishes and prayers to the "victim" who was forced to use his concealed weapon to defend himself. At least he was able to do so.
     
  18. springmom

    springmom Member

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    I expect that the "bizarre" label was meant to encompass the entire incident. And it was bizarre....guy is sitting and eating his lunch and he's attacked out of the blue. That's bizarre.

    I feel for the shooter. And I feel for the family of the dead man.

    Springmom
     
  19. Devonai

    Devonai Member

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    Tenbase, you beat me to it. Vic Mackey wouldn't have waited until getting knocked over, though. :D
     
  20. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Well, if you'd ever spent any time in downtown Seattle, you wouldn't wonder ... nutcases are pretty commonplace, albeit not usually this violent ... all the cops were probably up in the top floor food court in the Westlake Center, anyway.
    Actually, I'd have to disagree here; around Westlake Center, Pike Place and Pioneer Square are usually the only places you can find a lot of law enforcement in Seattle at any given time and see reasonable response time ...

    Believe it or not folks, both the (liberal-leaning) Seattle Times and Post-Intelligencer have reporters and editors who understand that a lot of folks in Washingon carry guns, and that firearms are important to vast numbers of state residents. This is, after all, the original "shall-issue" state.
     
  21. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I've seen some of the bums in DT Seattle. They're totally out of control. I suspect the local government feels they have a right to attack people for money. The situation is pretty bad in Stumptown as well. Glad I left all that.
     
  22. IDriveB5

    IDriveB5 Member

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    No no no, musta been a .357magnum :neener:


    In all seriousness, I feel real bad for those invovled.
     
  23. enkindler

    enkindler Member

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    I do agree that the "bizarre" label is meant to be inclusive of the entire event. The area in question is populated by a number of transients but it also has a lot of foot traffic from people shopping at a number of higher end shops. It is very odd to have something happen in that area at this time of day.

    I do wonder if the majority of police were busy directing traffic for Seattle's American Heart Walk which closes down major streets and was to be ending at about the time this happened. They may have prioritized the call lower due to the location of the original incident too. There are a number of well known transients who live in downtown Seattle that are very vocal but harmless, visiting tourists who are fortunate to not have such a blaring reminder of our failed mental health system at home tend to make lots of calls. I am not belittling or blaming them for calling, but I think the police may be desensitized to the number of calls, there is little they can legally do to help these very sick people.

    I am very sorry that this man had to go through this, it sounds like he was pretty bummed about what he had to do. I am glad that the gentleman lived and that other bystanders weren't hit, it must have been a complicated shooting scenario and it could have gone from bad to worse.

    All in all I hope he copes well and it's a good reminder that you should carry as often as possible, police response can be slow.

    The thing that bothers me is that in a high foot traffic area there wasn't a single mention of anyone coming to his aid. It may be that the paper didn't report people who did but it may be time to leave the city to go back to areas where tend to stand up for one another.
     
  24. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    In IL the victim would be on trial for murder. :barf:
     
  25. shermacman

    shermacman Member

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    I want to believe that the word "bizarre" meant the entire event. But the presstitute also wrote this:

    Note the word "allowed". As if the victim had done anything wrong. The victim was verbally threatened with murder, then the victim was repeatedly hit, then the victim shot and killed the bad guy. Obviously, he should have been "allowed to walk out of a police station".
     
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