Seattle CCW Incident

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Moral of story: Don't mess with bald guys in leather jackets.
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I resemble that remark! Up until two years ago, I had worked in downtown Seattle for twenty years, and my office was just a few blocks from Westlake Center. As is common with most big cities these days, the EDPs (emotionally disturbed persons) are very common downtown. Back when I was a paramedic, we joked that downtown Seattle was the state's largest open-air psychiatric unit. The Seattle Police Department radio code at the time for an EDP was '220', and we used to talk about our patients who were 219 and seven-eighths.

My sympathies to all involved in the incident. I would bet that no charges will be filed against the victim of the assault.
 
I am not seeing a whole lot of spin in that article. It seems pretty clearly throught who the bad guy was. There are some ignorant quotes from bystanders, but bystanders are generally pretty ignorant, cant blame the paper for that.

Seattle is a weird city when it comes to gun-related issues. It has the feel of a San Francisco-lite, and the city council embraces this pretty enthusiasticaly. However, our liberal leaders continiously butt up against Seattle's deep blue-collar roots and seem to have abandoned the gun control issue around here. There are a lot of defensive shootings around here (all the problems of a big coastal city combined with a shall-issue state) and they are rarely prosecuted with any injustice, even when questionable.
 
Oops,

This is what happens when replace vs. cut and paste,

I originally had a line after the URL talking about the recent pro-gun control stories that had been in the PI and how this story didn't seem to reflect their normal stance.

I agree that they reported this story in a mostly fair manor.
 
I originally had a line after the URL talking about the recent pro-gun control stories that had been in the PI and how this story didn't seem to reflect their normal stance.
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Don't get me wrong, the PI is absurdly liberal. Of course so is the Times. Occassionally they will accidentally print an article that actually makes sense, but that is the exception. You can tell that the guy who wrote the linked article really *wanted* to spin the story, but the facts just didnt cooperate, and apparently he was above outright making them up (which places them in the top 10% of Seattle media personell).

It sure would be nice if we had more than two newspapers (that come off the same press).
 
I'd think bizarre because it was "some guy just started beating up on the other guy", as opposed to something with some kind of motive.
 
From the second linked story:
Investigators said the man who was killed approached the other and out of the blue started assaulting him. The man who was being hit fired one round from his own weapon, which police say was legally registered.
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So Washington requires registration of handguns? Or was that a confabulation of the writer, and it was just the case that the shooter had a Concealed Pistol License?
____________
-twency
 
Washington state does NOT register firearms.
He has a concealed-weapons permit.
Just another reporter making an incorrect statement.
 
You can tell that the guy who wrote the linked article really *wanted* to spin the story, but the facts just didnt cooperate, and apparently he was above outright making them up (which places them in the top 10% of Seattle media personell).
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I saw no "slant" or "spin" to that article at all. How can you read an article and "tell they wanted to spin it" but just couldn't? When people say things like that it makes them seem like the ones doing the spinning.
 
Having just moved from PDX I can say that my 911 response time was always immediate and the police responded according to the urgency of the call. In fact, they got to my place to handle a noise complaint within 30 minutes on a Friday night and a domestic violence call within 15 minutes, again on a busy weekend night that had a spate of gang-related shootings up in Rockwood.

And I lived in Felony Flats,
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
 
I saw no "slant" or "spin" to that article at all. How can you read an article and "tell they wanted to spin it" but just couldn't? When people say things like that it makes them seem like the ones doing the spinning.
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They did say, "The victim was rushed to Harborview Medical Center where he later died." "Witnesses said the shooter sat down after pulling the trigger." The other article said he had only fired after being knocked down.

It wasn't too bad, but that "victim" part is crap.
 
In fact, they got to my place to handle a noise complaint within 30 minutes on a Friday nigh
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You must have gotten very lucky. The last time I called 911 I did so because my sisters bf was tryng to break into her house and I made the 15 minute drive there before I actualy got an operator on the phone. The averages for 911 and police response times were available to us at our neighborhood watch meeting. I am not sure where they actually come from though. I would guess from the mayors office.
 
Washington state does NOT register firearms.
He has a concealed-weapons permit.
Just another reporter making an incorrect statement.
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Actually, Washington State has a "handgun sales registry" for when you buy from a gun dealer. This is contained at the Department of Licensing-Firearms Division office in Olympia. However, Handgun Sales Registry information is private and cannot be accessed by anyone other than law enforcement, so there is no way for the reporter to know.

I will be placing a phone call to the Seattle PI and try to get a hold of this reporter to let her know that a Concealed Pistol License doesn't require the registration of handguns at all, or at least the editor.

That being said, the person from Snohomish County was correct about downtown Seattle: There are a lot of EDP's in downtown Seattle, centering around Pioneer Square area however due to the "Ride Free Area" in downtown they can move around pretty easily.

To give an idea of how dangerous things can be at any time. We had a raging psychotic on one of the buses here, the Sound Transit 565 that runs from Overlake Transit Center that's smack dab in the middle of Microsoft to Federal Way Transit Center. It runs a path down I-405 to SR-167, then goes west on US-18 and then heads north to S. 320th in Federal Way.

Anyway, during that time, the guy got on in Renton and was continually harassing and intimidating people, and this is one of the commuter buses during the commute hours for frak's sake. He didn't hit anyone, but he got WAAAY uncomfortably close to me. This was one of the biggest reasons I bought a car. Metro and Sound Transit absolutely refuse to take the TriMet route and start booting these psychotics off the buses and serving exclusions. Until then, I will not take a bus.
 
Hope he kept his mouth shut til he got an attorney
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I just took my class for CCW last weekend. That was one of the things that were stressed. Do not say anything to the police until you talk to an attorney. Out of about 30 people in the class, he said maybe 2 would keep their mouth shut if the situation were to happen. Most of the people in prison are there because they can't keep their mouth shut.
 
The shooting stunned Jim and Edith Welsh, tourists from Australia who'd just left the Nordstrom store across the street when police arrived. Peering across the police tape draped across Pine Street, Welsh hugged his wife. "I think we're going back to our hotel right now," he said.
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Was he thinking "We don't allow such anti-social idears as self defense, down undah."?

Reminds me of the Oz anti-gunner that was on NPR the other day trying to demonstrate the effectiveness of Oz gunbans by comparing firearms homicides in an Australian city versus an American city. Too bad he chose D.C. as his example, kinda demonstrates the opposite of what he wanted.
 
So far, the police seem to be treating the victim appropriately. From today's Seattle Times:


Police say they may never identify gunman

The identities of two men involved in a fatal shooting Saturday at Seattle's Westlake Center were not released Sunday, and police said they may never officially identify the man who pulled the trigger.

Police and witnesses said a man in a yellow shirt was fatally shot after he attacked another man about 11:30 a.m. at Fourth Avenue and Pine Street, in the heart of Seattle's downtown shopping district.

Police said they are treating the shooter as a crime victim, and they did not anticipate criminal charges against him.

The name of the man who was killed has not been released by the King County Medical Examiner's Office.
 
That's the way things ought to be. Keep his name out of the papers - so the relatives of the dead guy won't be suing him, so the people he knows won't all think of him as a killer or something.
Treating him like a crime victim - that's exactly what he is.
+1 to the police involved for treating a guy in that situation the way they did. No charges yet, no name publicized.
 
I just got dropped off at the Plaza by the cabbie on Sat at 11am on the dot. My sister and I didn't see anything unusual. We must have walked away from it before it happened.

There were a lot of 'characters' in downtown Seatle, however.

Like the town a lot.

cavman
 
I saw no "slant" or "spin" to that article at all. How can you read an article and "tell they wanted to spin it" but just couldn't? When people say things like that it makes them seem like the ones doing the spinning.
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When interviewing witnesses a reported has hundreds of quotable statements, you can detect the slant of the reported by the statements that he chooses to print. He didnt quote the guy who said "man, that crazy mother sure was looking to get shot". Instead he selected ""So I came out here to make sure he [the shooter] didn't get away, but I didn't accost him because he was standing there with a loaded weapon."
 
Seattle, the town left of center

With all this discussion, it's probably important to note that Seattle is akin to San Fran, and has a pretty left leaning to it.

This left lean is probably the source of the bizarre comment that would have many of us stumped. In Montana, if something like that would happen, it would certainly be in the news, yet unlikely bizarre.

I grew up outside of Seattle, and remember the news when a man in 1993 carried a AK (unloaded) on his shoulder as he strolled around Green Lake. He was within the law, yet the local news stations felt it news worthy to note... of course, that was just prior to the 1994 ban.

Seattle is a patch of blue in a sea of red in Washington...
 
When interviewing witnesses a reported has hundreds of quotable statements, you can detect the slant of the reported by the statements that he chooses to print.
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And you have access to the quotes and can compare the ones he did and didn't choose to print? Unless you do you cannot judge whether this was spin or not since you yourelf do not know that facts of the event.

I must be missing something. Tell me where the spin is in this article.
 
Sure we can. Even without being there ...

But this is assuming competence on the part of the on-scene reporter, too.

As far as the quotes that end up in the final printed article, however, the editors will have the final say ... and in the case of the Seattle papers, we know which quotes will make the article.

I agree with Mr. Yeager. There was spin involved. And I'm sure plenty of witnesses accurately assessed the situation (hence law enforcement letting the shooter go sans charges).

With all this discussion, it's probably important to note that Seattle is akin to San Fran, and has a pretty left leaning to it.
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Disagree. Having lived in both cities. Big difference is, lots of liberals in Seattle love their guns, where in San Francisco, the liberals are afraid of guns ...
 
Jail records also show he was arrested three times this year for violating the conditions of his release.
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I think I see a problem here.


The concealed pistol was identified as a Ruger .357 revolver.
Witnesses told police the older man did nothing to provoke the attack in which he was punched and kicked until he fell to the sidewalk, at which point he drew a .357-caliber Ruger revolver and fired one shot.
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I don't see a problem with that at all.
 
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