Seattle CCW Incident

[CornCod]

The defenders of Culotti are foolish. It appears he got what he deserved. However, I hope that readers of this board don't take the wrong lesson away from this incident by endorsing the commonly held view that most of the mentally ill people walking the streets are dangerous. Most of them are harmless. They should be treated will caution, but armed people should not automatically go into "condition red" when dealing with "crazies."

 

[kungfuhippie]

I just read the story from The seatle times "Family remembers Culotti as loving, charming"

It is sad that he was aflicted with mental illness, I wish he had gotten better care. But I really must ask some questions since the family in their grief are blaming the vicitm. (I understand, that's normal for loved ones in their pain to point the finger)

1. Why is a parolee, arsen, with mental illness that he doesn't treat and drug and alcohol problems looked on as the victim in the altercation? It took him several choices to get there. To not take his medicine, to do drugs, to abuse alcohol. Yes he was in a bad mental state and at that point had lost control. And I know I'll get flamed for this, but he could have taken his medicine, stayed away from drugs, gotten a job...

2. There are people with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses that take there meds, and are productive members of society. It is a choice, he knew he had problems from his teens, even confessing to his father, "I think I'm crazy, you know?"

3. Where's his family? I'm guessing when he burned down mom's daycare with kids inside they didn't want anything to do with him. Oh, that's right, they moved across the country. But then they said at the funeral that when Danny's parol time was up they would send for him to come to New York?

4. How does a mentally ill person who burned down a daycare get out early? Doesn't trying to kill "demons" in a daycare cancel out any time off for good behavior. Where's the government? (thought I'd never ask that) That's their only real job, to protect the people!

Yes, it's a tragedy. I know Danny wasn't in his right mind, and had he not been ill probably been a good member of society. I wish he had not died, not as much as the shooter wishes he hadn't died. Knowing I had to kill a man. But he did, and that was what it took for the victim to protect his own life. Maybe instead of just talking we should try and get our politicians to make the streets safer by spending all that money they've been wasting on (too much to list), and reopen mental hospitals to treat these poor in our society.

 

[Vern Smalley]

The after effects

Having personally killed an assailant a number of years ago, and thinking about it nearly every day since, I would not wish the after effects on anybody.

In the discussion of what the shooter should have done, I'd recommend pulling out your concealed weapon, yelling out "Stand back or I'll kill you," and using the heavy-frame revolver as a club if that failed. Once you pull that trigger, it's a whole new world, people. And I could tell you stories about our news media that would make a maggot vomit.

Vern Smalley

 

[MillCreek]

There are people with schizophrenia and other mental illnesses that take there meds, and are productive members of society. It is a choice, he knew he had problems from his teens, even confessing to his father, "I think I'm crazy, you know?"

Speaking as someone who works in healthcare, it is very common for people with a number of mental illnesses (psychoses, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, the list goes on) to stop taking their meds. The usual pattern is they start off very diligently taking their meds. They start to feel better after a while, and without the necessary support system, start to think that they don't need meds after all, and they stop taking them. They then start to decompensate, and very often, end up on the street or emergency department needing to be hospitalized so they can get the necessary medications. Once they are stable, they are discharged and the cycle begins again.

In Washington state, the family members are almost helpless to try and force treatment on an adult patient. The patient has to be adjudged a danger to themselves or others before they can be hospitalized against their will. Unfortunately, many patients die before they get to this stage. We cynically call this 'dying with your rights on'.

Very, very sad, and but for the Grace of God and a small change in our neurochemistry, any one of us could be one of those patients.

 

[p35]

FWIW, a lot of mentally ill people are very intelligent. Seems to be part of the haywire function of their brains.

I deal every day with mentally ill people who want help. The publicly funded mental health agencies in this state are a joke, mainly because the mentally ill don't vote and end up at the bottom of the priority list for funding (maybe ahead of us public defenders, but that's a different issue). Counselors in those agencies often make close to minimum wage, and the competent ones go into private practice as soon as they get the chance. Don't get me started on how hard it is to get someone committed for treatment if they don't want to go... Hell, I have a mentally ill son, and even with good health insurance it's been a struggle to get him the treatment he needs. God knows where my family would be if we had to depend on public funding.

No one but one psychiatrist (and most I've known are as screwy as their patients) is calling this guy a victim. OTOH, it is a tragedy that everyone could see this coming and didn't get ahead of the situation before someone had to shoot him in self defense. Bad scene all around.

 

[rwc]

I spent a while representing the state in civil commitment hearings back when I was a WA AAG. Most of these folks are just very sad cases. But a handful keep you up at night...

One of the unintended consequences of the de-institutionalization movement that started back in the 70's is that these folks now have the right to die on the street just like everyone else. No one wants to admit (or advocate) that there is a significant subset of the mentally ill who do best, and are more likely to live longer, in an institutional setting.

This would require some significant changes in the law and moving away from the current 6 month cycle of judicial review is a political non-starter in Olympia.