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Secret Sauce Wet Tumbling WITHOUT pins

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Tilos, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Tilos

    Tilos Member

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    I've been reading every wet tumbler thread on the web looking for that magical additive that cleans primer pockets, wet tumbling WITHOUT pins.
    A lot of reloader's have quit using pins because of the hassle using them and just except less than squeaky clean primer pockets.
    I've tried about every "cleaner" that I have around the house but have not struck gold yet.
    There's even a product sold that is supposed to work without pins called Brass Juice.
    Anyone out there know of and use a "secret sauce" that you could share with us?
    :uhoh:
    https://www.thereloadingstation.com/products/brass-juice-case-wash

     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  2. Laphroaig

    Laphroaig Member

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    I have something called "Bransonic cleaner" that works very well. Its largely citric acid based, so you might want to experiment with citric acid and a few drops of Dawn dishsoap.
     
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  3. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    My formula in my ultrasonic is one teaspoon of lemi shine and a few drops of dawn. It gets the primer pockets clean.
    I'm sure you already tried it in you tumbler.
    I polish my brass up bright in my tumblers, I think polished brass is easier to clean after its been fired. Rougher surface holds on to more dirt.
    You could try that to see if it helps.
     
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  4. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    I soak my brass in the kitchen sink with hot water, Simple Green and a little Dawn dishwashing liquid, stirring every so often. I do this before sizing, to remove the nasty carbon and lead dust.

    That works well enough for pistol brass to load it once it dries. I still end up tumbling the rifle brass after I have re-sized the brass, to remove the sizing lube.

    I would expect, given how well this works on removing lose carbon around the case snack, that the primer pockets would be similarly cleaned. But if I really care enough to want shiny clean primer pockets, I will process them the same way I process case necks - one at a time, at the prep station.
     
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  5. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    I wet tumble without pins. Doesn't clean the primer pockets very well, but then I've never seen any reason to clean primer pockets,
     
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  6. Reeferman

    Reeferman Member

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    Tried not using pins and for me not worth it. The few minutes to put in RCBS rotary separator filled with water the cleaner brass is worth it.
     
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  7. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    MO powah to ya!:)

    We all do what floats our own boat!:p
     
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  8. Tilos

    Tilos Member

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    Thanks for the responses so far
    I have used the traditional Lemishine/Dawn/Armorall wash-wax mix and tried that mix with Shout, Super Purple, Oxiclean as a replacement for the Dawn.
    All this without pins, and have yet to find a combo that left the primer pockets anywhere near as clean as tumbling with pins.
    Maybe I just need a different separator, as Reeferman suggested.
    :D
     
  9. Stew0576

    Stew0576 Addicted

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    I boil my brass in a stainless pot, use lemishine, Dawn and citric acid, stir often, does a pretty good job, rinse with hot water
     
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  10. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    Canning citric acid and dish soap
     
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  11. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    FYI ... lemishine = citric acid ;)
     
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  12. Stew0576

    Stew0576 Addicted

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    I know but I'm a little silly about some things :D
     
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  13. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    I use my old Frankford dry media separator to get the pins out. Works well but some try to escape.
    The new one has a cover to prevent this.
    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...latinum-series-wet-dry-rotary-media-separator
    .
    There might be a magic solution that works as well without pins as wash and wax and citric does with pins but wash and wax and citric acid is cheap, easy to find.
    Somehow though I imagine it's like cleaning almost anything else, it just works better when you scrub. (or the pins do)
    Never found anything to clean the bathtub that works as good as a cheap jar of Comet/Ajax and some elbow grease, no magic solutions for that that I have found yet.
     
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  14. Dill

    Dill Member

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    hmm, interesting. I find the most annoying thing about wet tumbling is drying the brass off, not dealing with the pins (which takes about 60 seconds)
     
  15. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    You're varying the wrong additive.

    The Lemishine (citric acid) is what breaks up the carbon. All the various dish soaps do is help it to float off and stay in suspension until you pour the water off.

    The reason that you can get the outside of the cases as clean without the pins, is because the other cases rub against each other and abrade the carbon off; but they don't get into the primer pockets...too large.

    To clean the carbon out of the primer pockets...without pins or a primer pocket cleaner...you need to increase the amount of citric acid and/or let it steep longer before beginning your agitation .

    Disclaimer: I don't care about the cleanliness of my primer pockets. Since I'm not adding pins...I'm loading handgun rounds... I don't deprime before tumbling

    I'd never heard of using Simple Green before, but it sounds interesting enough to try when I finish off my current bottle of Lemi-shine
     
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  16. Tilos

    Tilos Member

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    I've read that too much Lemishine will turn the cases "copper colored".
    I might try white vinegar instead of citric...:uhoh:
    :D
     
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  17. Dill

    Dill Member

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    it does, since it's acidic, it can remove the nickel out of the case leaving a higher percentage of copper. it's really interesting looking, I have a few 9mm cases that are actually pink.

     
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  18. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    It’s not as effective, since it’s not acidic, but it works well enough and it reduces the risk of chemically altering the brass. That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. :)
     
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  19. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    It can...usually pink :p

    How much you need depends on the hardness of your water; that is why someone's "favorite formula" might not work as well for you.

    Using a F.A.R.T. filled with about 1k .38Spl cases, I'll fill to the bottom of the top bevel with hot water and add a .45ACP case of Lemishine and a short dribble of Armorall Wash-n-Wax, then tumble for about 1.5 hours...but I have fairly hard water
     
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  20. Reeferman

    Reeferman Member

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    How do you separate the pins?
     
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  21. Dill

    Dill Member

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    Here's how I do it.

     
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  22. Tilos

    Tilos Member

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    I have a $8 Frankford A sieve type separator made for dry media .
    I put it into a bucket with the paint strainer bag in it, and dump the tumbler container into it, then shake.
    I've read where the rotary type separator works better because the bottom of it is partially under water.
    I don't see a way to use the bag with it, unless you cut the bottom off of it, like the guy in this video.

    I don't have a rotary separator like in the vid :uhoh:.
    :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
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  23. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    Simple Green is a good carbon cutter. A lot of people use it to clean there guns since it's environmental friendly. If I have some really grungy brass I normally add some into the mix.

    Another option is to use a commercial product that's used for ultrasonic cleaners. These are design to clean brass in 10 min, so they work fast.
     
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  24. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    There is no "secret" and mild acid and detergent with water with clean your brass,
    The internet falsehood about vinegar is just that false. It will not alter the brass any more so that other acids like citric or phosphoric (using the correct amount" adding slat to the vinegar also does NOT make it a stronger acid,

    "proven by PhD in Chemistry "(not getting into this as the topic is beat to death) I just dry tumble and it's clean enough.

    Buy some citric acid from Duda or just buy Iosso Brass cleaner from Midway

    Your brass will be "surgically clean"


    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2049622895/iosso-brass-case-cleaner-liquid

    https://www.sinclairintl.com/userdocs/MSDS/749-002-650_IOSSO CASE CLEANER KIT, 1 QUART CASE CLEANER - 073_default.pdf

    https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=citric
     
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  25. Dudedog
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    Dudedog Contributing Member

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    Next time you see some like that check them with a magnet..
    I have had some brass colored steel cases (that somehow got by the first magnet check) come out interesting colors, while the rest of the brass looks normal.
     
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