onthehunt
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If you are extremely accurate with a .22 under duress then go for it..
Self defence, Power VS accuracy
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David E
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Split the difference with a Glock 35. If .40 caliber isn't an option, then get the 34. Based on your posts, you'll be better served with a 9mm
Sell Vektor to Dad, buy a Glock for you.
If a .22 is the biggest caliber that can be "controlled," then that's the best option. For defense, a semi-auto is better than a revolver.
Tho not ideal, t's hardly worthless, especially if the other choice is nothing at all.
Walt Sherrill
Member
Is 9mm really that much more costly than .38 Special? If cost wasn't a problem with .38, why is it an issue with 9mm? (Or .32, or .380, or 9x18?)
It appears that both you and your father want an easy answer for which no easy answer is available.
Better armed in what respect? Better able to punch holes in a paper target, or better able to protect himself against unexpected attacks, which are typically much closer? Here in the U.S., being attacked by dogs (Rottweilers, Pitt Bulls, German Shepherds) is arguably a greater threat than being attacked by humans -- although there is risk of both if you live in certain locales.
A .22 could be effective against either class of antagonist (human or canine) IF you had plenty of warning and are free to calmly sight and fire your weapon. But a human and a dog can travel 25-30 feet in just a few seconds. To further complicate matters, I don't think a .22 would have much effect on an aggravated Pitt Bull unless you got really lucky with a shot through an eye socket. Moving targets are hard to hit, even if you're an accomplished .22 shooter...
At our IDPA club, we demonstrated this at one of our IDPA matches several year ago, when we had a balloon mounted in the middle of an IDPA target, filling the center-mass circle; we had a target mover pulling the target across the rear of the indoor range.
A surprising number of folks, some of them quite accomplished shooters, simply couldn't pop the balloon. Success in hitting the balloon seemed more the result of "spray and pray" than the result of well-placed shots.
The problem, and it's a big one, is that most dog attacks and most human attacks don't come with a lot of warning, and tend to be UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL by the time a victim can bring a weapon to bear. With a dog attack, you may be on your back with a dog attached to your body before you can even fire your weapon. Human attackers aren't likely to give you much warning, either.
I would argue that in that case, even a poorly shot .38 revolver or a Vector might be the better weapon of choice. Most guns used in self-defense situation aren't used at pistol-range distances.
If ammo is too expensive to practice with -- a cited deterrent to changing to something other than .22 -- your father has valued his life in a most flippant manner. If .38 special wasn't a cost limitation, maybe he needs to look at a DAO revolver, or having a gunsmith work on the .38's action so that it's more easily used. (A gunsmith can do wonders with triggers on some guns.)
Sell your father your Vector (he shoots it better than you), and get the Glock 34 or 35 -- depending on the availability of ammo. I loved a 34, had a 35, and now have a 23 and 38. The 38 is my favorite... but .45 GAP may be hard to get where you live.
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Skylerbone
Member
Now is when we finally discover that the real culprit is either trigger control, sights or a mental block. None of those require a caliber change and all are fixable.
From the bit I've read about South Africa, my understanding is that multiple assailants is a more likely scenario than a lone individual. If 4 .22 lrs. were the equivalent of 1 9mm, something we know to be false, the average .22 won't have enough capacity for addressing multiple attackers. Knowing the situation compels you to use a larger caliber, work on which ever element of your Vector that needs attention.
From the bit I've read about South Africa, my understanding is that multiple assailants is a more likely scenario than a lone individual. If 4 .22 lrs. were the equivalent of 1 9mm, something we know to be false, the average .22 won't have enough capacity for addressing multiple attackers. Knowing the situation compels you to use a larger caliber, work on which ever element of your Vector that needs attention.
Accuracy is #1.
Daughter's favorite is a .357 with very light handloads. Accuracy and something she will practice with trump power IMO.
Son likes his 9mm.
Wife likes .380
I use the same light handloads my daughter does. I like the speed I can place 6 rounds accurately.
Daughter's favorite is a .357 with very light handloads. Accuracy and something she will practice with trump power IMO.
Son likes his 9mm.
Wife likes .380
I use the same light handloads my daughter does. I like the speed I can place 6 rounds accurately.
Hunter2011
Member
He does not shoot his .38 special regularly or at a club, as he is not a member yet. So the price of the .38 special ammo is no issue. But it and any centerfire ammo will be too costly if he ever joins a club and has to shoot a lot. My father has much more money than me, but he prefers not to spend
45_auto
Member
Sounds like he needs to decide whether his life is worth the cost of learning to shoot centerfire ammo.
If he thinks that it's too expensive, then stick with the .22.
If he thinks that it's too expensive, then stick with the .22.
Walt Sherrill
Member
If centerfire ammo is too expensive -- if one has to shoot a lot (but I don't know why someone has to shoot a lot!) -- your father's best course of action is to become an alchemist, and turn lead into gold. There's no other more-realistic solution.
You've asked a question, and you've put such limits on the possible answers that you seem to leave yourself (or him) only one option, and are seeking our approval: you seem convinced that your father must keep and use the .22 given his attitude and his budget.
As others have noted, a .22 is better than nothing, but so is a pointed stick. Unhappily, using the .22 satisfies your father's budget concerns but meets few other requirements.
Using a .22 because it's what your father shoots best is a specious course of action, at best. It is an intellectually satisfying alternative in that it puts the debate to rest, but it does virtually NOTHING to address the question of how your father may best defend himself.
If you're (or he is) determined to use a .22, the best question might be "which .22 is best for a self-defense situation. I can tell you, the longer the barrel, the better... and maybe a .22 magnum. If its for home defense, a .22 magnum rifle may be a better choice than a handgun. A shotgun might be even better.
The other option -- and I mentioned it in my last response -- is having a gunsmith work on the revolver, so that it fires with less effort. A S&W revolver, for example, can be tuned so that trigger pull weight and smoothness can be improved. I suspect his gun can also be improved.
Or, have the same gunsmith work on the Vector, and let your Father use it...
.
You've asked a question, and you've put such limits on the possible answers that you seem to leave yourself (or him) only one option, and are seeking our approval: you seem convinced that your father must keep and use the .22 given his attitude and his budget.
As others have noted, a .22 is better than nothing, but so is a pointed stick. Unhappily, using the .22 satisfies your father's budget concerns but meets few other requirements.
Using a .22 because it's what your father shoots best is a specious course of action, at best. It is an intellectually satisfying alternative in that it puts the debate to rest, but it does virtually NOTHING to address the question of how your father may best defend himself.
If you're (or he is) determined to use a .22, the best question might be "which .22 is best for a self-defense situation. I can tell you, the longer the barrel, the better... and maybe a .22 magnum. If its for home defense, a .22 magnum rifle may be a better choice than a handgun. A shotgun might be even better.
The other option -- and I mentioned it in my last response -- is having a gunsmith work on the revolver, so that it fires with less effort. A S&W revolver, for example, can be tuned so that trigger pull weight and smoothness can be improved. I suspect his gun can also be improved.
Or, have the same gunsmith work on the Vector, and let your Father use it...
.
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David E
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No, it's not.
Agreed, but I bet she could handle more power than "very light handloads."
Which is how fast compared to how fast with full power loads?
The smaller you go in caliber and power the more accurate you need to be.
Which is easier, hitting a bouncing basketball at 3-5 yds with a full power.38/.357/9mm or hitting a tennis ball with a .22 or .357 with "very light handloads" that's moving faster at the same distance?
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