Self Defense: 00 vs. #4

[cbrgator]

What's better for self-defense/home defense.

00: 12 pellets
#4: 27 pellets

Pros/Cons? Significant difference in recoil? Give me the details!

 

[doc2rn]

Quite a bit of difference actually. I found #3 works best for my shotgun, close enough to #4 to not split hairs. Lighter recoil, better spread pattern, and not a single hiccup yet though the buck is gettin outrageous at $6 / 5 shot box, when I can get a 25 shot box of #3 or 4 for the same price at Dicks, just bought Rem Nitro's last week in 4s.
Definately right weapon but if you reload might I recommend the military's answer? Broken glass, its very lethal and when it hits a wall rather than destroy it the glass turns to powder and can easily be swept up.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Where did you read the military uses broken glass? From what I've seen they use 00.

 

[Grunt]

Wow, two branches of service under my belt and I have yet to see this "military load" of using broken glass. Only thing I have ever seen in inventory is 00 Buck in both the Marines and Air Force, slugs in the Marines, and birdshot in the Air Force used only to shoot birds in the birdstrike mitigation programs. I kind of think Winchester has the military shotshell market cornered here since every shell I've come across since 1988 has been manufactured by Winchester.
As far as this broken glass shell, do you have an NSN or DODIC for these "military load" shells? I can check the LOGDET but what is the nomenclature I'd have to search for, "Cartridge, 12 gauge, military load, broken glass, 1 each"? All joking aside, I don't know where you heard that we use "broken glass" rounds but I think somebody was pulling your leg when they gave you that information.

 

[A man with a gun!]

8 or 9 pellet 00B would be more my speed.

 

[snooperman]

#4 buck is ideal for home defense

WHY? Because within the confines of your home the penetration of OO buckshot may be too much- 18-22 inches. With # 4 buck it is generally 12-15 inches. Over penetration at such close ranges can be problematic for the home owner and his love ones. Also, more shots on target with the smaller pellets has a bigger bonus effect in stopping the intruder than a few bigger ones. That said, the military and law enforcement have a different task before them ,whereby their use scenarios requires the use of heavier pellets for longer range shots they may encounter. Heavier pellets have more staying power and penetration at the longer distances. I used to use OO buck for home defense , but after doing more research on this topic , I have changed to 12 ga #4 buckshot.

 

[Floppy_D]

if you reload might I recommend the military's answer? Broken glass

Odd, I only remember 00 buck in our armory. Got a cite on that?

 

[PX15]

FWIW:

I have #4 buck in both of my shotguns, but that's only because years ago when I bought my first shotgun the local Sheriff's Dept was using #4 (my buddy was a deputy) and I figured whoever made the decision for them knew what he/she was talking about..

In hindsight, that Sheriff's dept probably used #4 because that's what was available and cheapest to obtain at he time. (early '70's).

Since then I buy 00 or #4 and figure either will suffice for my needs. I'm strictly a protect my home kinda guy, and I'm sure from any reasonable distance either would suffice.

I'm of the opinion that if you are talking strictly, STOP 'EM, either round would do the job..

Just personal opinion, no offense to those who disagree.

Jesse

 

[Snowdog]

I suppose for me it would boil down to range and location. In my case, the intended range would be quite close with the location being my home, so I chose #4 Buck.

If I were patrolling my spread outdoors, I would choose 00 Buck.

 

[freakshow10mm]

I prefer #1 buckshot in defense loads.

 

[huntsman]

my ranking would be

1. 12 pellet 00
2. 27 pellet #4
3. 09 pellet 00

All in 2-3/4" for all uses.

 

[clem]

In the house, #4.
Outside the house, #00.

 

[mljdeckard]

I use #4, and I also use it for coyotes.

 

[Owen Sparks]

#1 Buck throws 16 pellets of .30" diameter. This is the right combination of high pellet count with enough individual pellet mass to ensure deep penetration.

 

[Steve C]

I didn't vote because it really doesn't matter which you use. At the distance you'll be shooting in the house you need to aim to hit the BG. Hit 'em center mass and you'll put every piece of shot along with the wad into them. With either load the chances of the BG surviving is extremely low.

There's been plenty of intruders killed with bird shot at close range despite its supposed lack of penetration and buckshot of any size is much more effective.

 

[kdstrick]

OK... I'll be the wrench in the gears here. I use high brass Remington #2 shot!

Everything I've shot so far couldn't tell the difference between the 00, #2, or #4.

In my house, my longest shot is about 20 yards. Even bird shot is extremely lethal at that range.

 

[Vibe]

I'm guessing that it is #4 Buck that is being discussed and not #4 Shot - there's a fairly large difference. I found some #2 Buck that I decided to go with. Though there are some low recoil #1B/#4B duplex loads I might try. 00 Buck just has more penetration that I really figure I need to deal with avoiding.

 

[Rshooter]

Before I was disabled I was looking at the San Diego Sheriff's Department. They use a combination of 00 and Slugs. You have to figure in that they might have to use their shotguns outdoors at more than a HD range though. Still I prefer slugs, you just have to hit what you aim at.

 

[cbrgator]

So there would be no noticeable difference in recoil?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Still I prefer slugs, you just have to hit what you aim at.

The same is true with buckshot. At the ranges you might find within a normal home, buck won't spread much. For example, figure a 20-foot hallway (pretty long for the average home.) Subtract a few feet since the shooter won't be pressed flat against one wall and the intruder against the other. At the resulting range, you won't get a foot-wide pattern, even with a cylinder bore.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Split the difference - the answer for urban/suburban is neither of those - it's #1 buckshot. Enough deep penetration, without too MUCH penetration, and many many separate wound channels. Having said that, if I have no neighbors, I'll take 00 or 000 buck please.

 

[NoleMan]

00 buck is the way to go. Check out "the box o truth". He tests shotguns...not surprising results, but they're definitely interesting.

 

[Youngster]

In the house, #4.
Outside the house, #00.

+1

I wouldn't trust the penetration of #4 buck past a couple of yards on an attacker but OTOH it doesn't go through much in the way of building materials, especially at range. I've seen #4 buck pellets fail to exit an empty plastic milk jug at less than 20 yards.

 

[Snowdog]

So there would be no noticeable difference in recoil?

Not usually. Typically there's the same amount of lead (just different shot diameter) at the same velocity.

 

[Youngster]

Not usually. Typically there's the same amount of lead (just different shot diameter) at the same velocity.

12 pellet 00 throws over 100 grains more lead than 27 pellet #4 buck, it definately kicks harder. In fact I personally find that 12 pellet 00 is more abusive than even some more powerful loads for some reason.