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Self defense handgun choices and why.

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by brutus51, Sep 20, 2020.

  1. .455_Hunter

    .455_Hunter Member

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    My 15 years of training on THR did not prevent this post from misfiring.

    I have 30 years of defensive shooting and carrying experience, including active military time and several defensive encounters where firearms were deployed.

    I am not going to keep debating a moderator who knows that their viewpoint is the correct viewpoint.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  2. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    That's precisely what we want to happen, timely, and it does--until it doesn't, under stress.

    The need to draw and fire very quickly in a frightful situation can shortcut the process. Maybe slowing the first shot, maybe preventing it, maybe casing it to miss,

    Anyone old enough can remember people slamming on the brake and putting a left foot down on a clutch pedal that isn't there on a car with an automatic transmission.

    No harm done.

    But I remember the time that a guy who had a Karmann Ghia with a 4-speed was giving me a ride in a Mustang with an auto selector on the floor. He sped up a bit and shifted up--into park. He was not under stress.

    One can opine about what should happen all day long, speak of what one thinks that one can do, etc.

    But when engineers are faced with safety of flight, safety of operations, etc., they cannot afford to make assumptions. They have to take a much more rigorous approach. Too much is at stake.

    And they don't have to start from scratch. They don't have to invent or try out any theories. There are illustrations, measurements already made, , and data tables from which to draw.

    I don't follow the one manual of arms advice all the time, but i do try to adhere to it as much I can.

    I am familiar with all of my handguns and I am practiced with them, but that's not the point.

    I don't want to have to rely on any additional tactile or cognitive steps when I am reacting to an unexpected violent attack.
     
  3. mlankton

    mlankton Member

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    look I don't know you and I don't know your life experience. I've been a corrections officer since 2003, and crisis moments happen fairly frequently in my job. IN MY EXPERIENCE, frequent training does indeed kick in and become your automatic response in a crisis situation. I am sure this varies from individual to individual as we have different reactions to stress. For myself, I train and train frequently and I trust that training to be my automatic response should I ever find myself in a self defense situation. From my experience I have every reason to believe that will be the case.
     
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  4. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    A wise man once said, "Expect a 90% performance degradation in actual combat." In my experience, that's true. I have a middling amount of combat experience, and quite a bit of study of performance under stress. So I say, do everything you can to minimize degradation -- including making everything simply by sticking with a single platform.
     
  5. mlankton

    mlankton Member

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    I wouldn't agree with such a big drop off, but expect to be caught off guard. I will tell you that your field of vision narrows considerably and you are far less aware of anything that isn't happening right in front of you. Also, in a real fight you need to finish quickly. It's shocking how quickly you deplete your body's ready reserves. Many of us are probably older and/or not in the best of shape, so win and win fast.
     
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  6. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    I think experience shows the drop off to be close to correct.

    Perceptual narrowing causes lots of problems, too. For example, in designing flight simulators for the Navy, you have to have two carrier images. One shows the carrier as it is, the other shows the carrier as it appears to a pilot on final approach. The second carrier is about twice as long as the real carrier, but only half as wide. This means the pilot sees nothing that is not in front of him -- and that can cause problems.

    Perceptual narrowing can explain things like why a cop reaching for his taser drew his gun instead.

    Another problem is, people under stress will often persist in a course of action beyond the point where an outside observer would conclude that's no longer appropriate -- that is, they'll do the same thing over and over. A person who fails to take the safety off, for example, will keep pulling the trigger.
     
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  7. Ironicaintit

    Ironicaintit Member

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    I grew up with, and have always carried a sidearm with a manual safety, ala 1911 (but mostly BHP)
    My dad explained it to me that if you have habits built in to run that manual of arms, you can pick up and shoot just about whatever you want.
    If my thumb swipes at a nonexistent safety, no harm no foul.
    sounded reasonable to me...

    I think switching between this and that is inviting error, or at least in MY head, introducing the element of doubt
     
  8. mlankton

    mlankton Member

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    you guys make a good argument against carrying my 1911 and sticking to my decocker pieces. I always did like that they were ready to rock out of the holster. Maybe the 1911s will just be range toys, I will think on it.
     
  9. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Your 1911 should be ready to rock right out of the holster as well. :thumbup:
     
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  10. Stophel

    Stophel Member

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    I have no combat experience. I have no "training". But I can tell pretty easily if I have a revolver or a 1911 in my hand (I don't really have any other types). There's no real confusing the two. I'm used to them both. They do not handle the same, they do not feel the same, they do not point the same, and yet I can grab either one and instantly know what to do with it. But some might say I'm bound to freak out in a stressful situation and start scrunching on the trigger of a 1911 that simply won't go "bang" because I forgot to flip the safety off.... While that's remotely possible, I have to say I seriously doubt it. (besides, I'm actually rather cool in stressful situations... it's afterwards that I freak out).

    My 1911 holster is such that when I put my hand on it to draw, my thumb is automatically in the right position, and it WILL be on top of the safety when it comes out of the holster. I can't miss it.
     
  11. mlankton

    mlankton Member

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    see now here I was trying to be mature and compromising and let the other side of the argument feel good about themselves and here you all come lol
     
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  12. AK103K

    AK103K Member

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    Well, in reality, they ALL should be ready to rock right out of the holster. :p
     
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  13. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    That's the idea. Good put.

    Been there--in training.

    I'll buy that.
     
  14. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Yes it resides in a full kydex holster. With exception of COVID 2020, I spend the majority of my time traveling worldwide (work). She feels safe with that setup.
     
  15. John Joseph

    John Joseph Member

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    In a former life, patrol shotguns were the luck of the draw. We had Winchesters(the oldest was a M1897) Remington 870s. Mossberg 500s, Stevens, Ithacas and High Standards---all pump action 12s and all just different enough to require having your wits about you. Apparently shotguns were purchased with whatever funds were left over and purchased according to best pricing.
    To my recollection there never was a problem with deputies adapting to the differences and no FTF or ADs (well one very memorable AD, through the roof of the Captain's cruiser!)
    Commonality makes all kinds of sense, however I wonder if there is any hard data to support?
     
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  16. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Competition can give you a darn good idea of how you would react with various platform's.
     
  17. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Competition is not a reactive process. It is pre-planned, with a known gun, known targets, an a buzzer.
     
  18. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Thats correct, but it introduces stress.
     
  19. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    I have no combat experience, and have never had to use my gun defensively. I'm a pencil pusher who's lucky enough to know some firearms trainers and to get to spend some time with them. I stick to two guns for carry, a S&W Shield and (much less frequently) an LCR. No thumb safety. Point and shoot, as it were. I do this because I have neither the time, nor the budget or ammo, to go to the range as often as I'd like. I can pick up and shoot any gun on the market. Maybe not well, but I can get it to go bang. But can I do it fast enough and accurately enough in a combat situation? I don't know. Accordingly, I want to minimize the number of variables involved, should I ever need my gun.
     
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  20. South Prairie Jim

    South Prairie Jim Member

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    And nobody shootin back at ya
     
  21. South Prairie Jim

    South Prairie Jim Member

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    Just don’t be there.
     
  22. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    I have at times both carried and competed with the 22x sigs and the Beretta. I also carry a 329pd while on my fences or wood cutting. And I hunt with a 460 xvr or 44 mag single action or even a 10mm 1911 depending on the hunting circumstances. I can use any platform I need. I just prefer to carry the same one as my concealed carry gun. I didn't feel that way 10-15 years ago and did in fact carry a different gun most every day. I still shoot all of them.

    I don't know about the rest but I was talking more along the lines of ccw. I used to carry 7 or 8 different guns based on the weather and my mood. A USP, a Beretta 96, a 220/226/229, my Glock 27. Sometimes my Glock 29. A revolver some....I no longer do. The 27 is all I carry unless I'm in the woods or hunting. I feel its better for me. More because of the consistency of my grip, holster placement etc than just because of the manual of arms.

    I drive a 3 on the tree, a 4 in the floor, a 5 in the floor and a 6 in the floor BTW. (And the wife's auto some) And I have in fact reach for 6th in the 5 speed. 4.10 gears make it sound like it needs a 6th anyway. I have also went for the clutch when a deer runs out or someone pulls out in front of me and I panic stopped in her Toyota. No harm done but it does show that you go back to what you are most used to

    I have also hit my floor dimner in my older cars because I'm so used to the dead pedal on the left in my Mustangs. As a car guy and a racer ill even say that it would be safer to always drive the same vehicle. Not by a huge margin but somewhat
     
  23. tomrkba

    tomrkba Member

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    The revolver version has no IWB carry option.
     
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  24. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    One of the problems with training that induces stress is that it conditions you to BE stressed when the balloon goes up.
     
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  25. South Prairie Jim

    South Prairie Jim Member

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    I’m curious as to your personal experience having to use your weapon in a crisis situation and how the attack ended.
     
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