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self defense options

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by isaac.eck, Nov 28, 2012.

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  1. DNS

    DNS Member

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    No nothing lethal.
    But I think he's a smart young man stuck in the Detroit suburbs - very rough place.
    If i were him I'd be looking at my options and asking questions too.

    Good luck Isaac and stay safe.
     
  2. CWL

    CWL Member

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    Detroit suburbs are pretty much like any other suburb in the USA. They can be very nice.

    You are confusing his suburbs for the urban blighted inner city Detroit, which is what gets reported on TV, and which people stereotype as all of Detroit.
     
  3. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

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    Such as the right to life?
     
  4. zhyla

    zhyla Member

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    I think CWL was referring to a minor's legal rights, specifically about what he gets to carry in his pockets.
     
  5. CWL

    CWL Member

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    Exactly.

    Minors found in possession of pocket knives, kubatons, pepper spray, etc. aren't going to get a "pass" from the LEOs or school authorities.

    Guys, THINK before you make recommendations to a minor, especially on the internet.

    I certainly don't want the OP to get hurt by any BG encounters, but I certainly don't want to give advice that could cause him legal problems that will affect his future. We live in an increasingly "zero tolerance" society.
     
  6. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

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    So what if he has a metal flashlight in his pocket rather than a kubaton? A cased 2 piece pool cue rather than a club or a pad lock in his pocket rather than brass knuckles? None of these are illegal.
     
  7. Noah

    Noah Member

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    *Warning: I am a minor* :neener:


    I don't think anyone here was suggesting that minors carry any form of weapon in a school or anywhere where it wouldn't be legal? I know much better than to ever take a knife, OC spray, or even multi tool with me into a school zone, and I don't even go to a school every day. The idea of adults here suggesting that minors carry weapons in schools or anything purely unlawful IS scary- but I don't think that was the case here.

    I don't think anyone here was discussing in-school violence. That is (typically) the exact sort of monkey dance thing that is usually and hopefully easily avoided. What Isaac is asking and most of us are talking about is true defense of ourselves and those around us every where else we go. Not taking daddy's knife to school to get revenge on that bully.

    Wasn't going to rant on this, but I really have to. When people here say things that amount to, I am not really quoting anyone, it's just the message I get, "Minors just need to forget about defense until they are older" "Just run. You can avoid trouble" "Minors and weapons don't mix" "Minors are ALWAYS stupid irresponsible gangbangers with no brains and will never ever be in a situation where they have a responsibility to keep their loved ones safe" just absolutely ticks me off. :mad:

    Yes. Many minors are irresponsible morons who shouldn't have a car let alone a weapon or heaven forbid a pocket knife. Yes. Many minors have gotten themselves stuck in drug and sex based gangs and will only ever use a tool for pure evil.

    Yes. Believe it or not, some minors are reasonably responsible humans, who obey and truly respect the law, and are willing to use what force multiplier tools they legally can to defend those they love if they are absolutely forced to.

    Crazy? I don't care. If me with OC spray and a knife is able to keep my girlfriend or sister from being kidnapped, raped, tortured, and killed, and me with nothing but my hands means I lay half conscious and beaten on the pavement watching some evil drugged up man run off with the person I love, so be it. And I'll have you know I'd die trying either way.

    I'm a realist. We all have a sinful nature and evil exists. When my cousin was 9, a man broke into her basement and raped her. I KNOW first hand that evil exists. I accept this fact, and will use every thing I legally can to protect those I love. I understand the severity of these choices. Weapons are not toys. Nothing to show off to impress my gang buddy Al.

    On another note, minors getting in trouble for having a folding knife, I have had one on my person all the time for years now, I work with a part time police officer, and not once have I ever had any trouble over it. Just today my youth pastor asked, "Does anyone have a good sized pocket knife to trim this branch so it'll fit into this hole for the Christmas decorations?" Boom. Folder "saves the day" again. I hope and pray that it'll never be more serious than trimming some knots off a stick, but if it is, you bet I'll do something about it.
     
  8. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    We all make choices. From what to wear to where to go and what to eat, to how fast we drive and how to dress. I understand the OP's question. I remember how I felt growing up.

    There are some things we can't reasonably and conscionably say over the internet. Sure, this member, and some other members, may be extremely safe and mature, but many or most people in the age bracket won't be. Understand that what we write will be read by some of those people. So a more generalized and a very cautionary tone is definitely in order, for the things we discuss may have life-long consequences.

    Regards,

    John
     
  9. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    We have had numerous threads on non firearms weapons and self defense. The vast majority of them do not focus on swords, spears or other impractical every day carry defensive tools. Many of them don't even discuss knives, but provide valuable information on common every day items many of us carry that with a little thought serve as effective self defense tools. Others give guidance on the importance of awareness, avoidance, mind set and skills. Reading the body of material here in NFW may take time, but provides valuable information on the pros and cons around issues on self defense that anyone, including a minor, can benefit from since many of us live with the same restrictions that a minor in school faces.
     
  10. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

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    BINGO!

    That is the true evil of collectivism. Anytime you are seen as a member of some group rather than an autonomous individual you will be considered no better than the least member of that group. In other words, If some minors are irresponsible and immature, then ALL minors will be treated as if they are irresponsible and immature. For example, I once got in trouble at school for possessing a magic marker even though I was an art student and using it on an art project.

    The reason?

    Some kid had been drawing crude cartoons of the principal pleasuring himself on the bathroom wall. They could not catch whoever was doing it so they made a rule that nobody could have a magic marker at the high school, all 900 of us, even though only one person was misusing a marker.

    Laws against weapons work on this same collectivist principle. They treat everyone in the group, society in this case, like the weakest link and presumed to be up to no good simply for having a tool with the potential for criminal misuse BEFORE THE FACT.
     
  11. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    If that was what and how the question was phrased, I'd agree. The phrasing I caught was, "options... lethal self defense" which I take to mean "with potential to cause death in the act of defending oneself", and yes I could be wrong. Which is why most responsible adult members (and one self admitted teen) are adding thoughts as to situational awareness, retreat, avoid monkey dance, choose friends wisely, etc as part of their "take the high road" type responses.

    But sometimes, even for teens... maybe especially for some teens in some places (and adults for that matter) where the law says nada to overt weaponry and where some teens, who do not take the higher road in life, and who are beginning their criminal career choices already or are deep into them in some cases and run in packs, well, it never hurts to learn more and to be prepared for the worst.

    So I'll throw out one more caveat for isaac, et al, that must not be overlooked and that most members here (and lurkers) are aware of... the aftermath of use of force. You survive one ordeal only to begin another, where every decision you made, every act you performed will be harshly questioned by those not involved with a very, very high price to pay. Besides the legal expenses, trials and tribulations, do not overlook the following...

    Retribution.

    Sadly enough a very real possibility and one to discuss with the family and maybe friends, isaac. Such is life and yet another lesson to learn (hopefully not, but as a teen I was once forced to deal with "payback" which affected my younger sister and boy oh boy, did that cause problems in my family)

    So keep your wits about you, learn to de-escalate, placate, etc when and if you cannot vamoose, smile at everyone you meet... but have a plan and stick to the High Road (I'm sure you will).
     
  12. Owen Sparks

    Owen Sparks member

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    If a minor were to join the military and "kill" to protect the interests of the US he would be called a hero. Why is it wrong for him to kill to protect his own best interests, HIS LIFE, in an appropriate situation? It is odd how someone under 21 is not deemed mature enough to purchase a handgun yet at 18, (17 with parental approval) you can join the marines and become a professional machine gunner.

    BTW, killing and murder are not the same thing.
     
  13. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    You can't honestly compare day to day life in America to having to serve in combat, really?

    Hyperbole is all well and good for emphasis, but taken too far it becomes absurd.
     
  14. kBob

    kBob Member

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    Long ago , infact when I was a minor some one explained to me that "weapon" is between the ears and not in the hands.

    As a minor in the hands just is not an option for today.

    My kids are elementary and middle school aged. Their primary defense is avoidance. Second line is escape.

    Both take a sport karate class. One got a suspension when the karate had to be used after a bullying attack got to the bully hitting the victim in a corner stage. Hasn't been physically bullied since though. Their instructor teaches straight from his style. I add here at home mainly what are generically termed break aways. how to break a wrist lock or just someone gripping their clothing and follow through with breaking away if possible.

    Having taught highschool in public schools I am aware that kids sometimes break the rules on weapons, just as on everything else. If you want to not be in a whole heep of hot water, maybe even locked in a cage with the very sort of folks you most want to avoid, you however can not be the kid that breaks the rules.

    Get and stay in good physical shape. Be aware of what goes on around you. Keep escape routes in mind. As corny as it sounds be nice.

    Speaking of Civil Air Patrol and related to this section of THR, did you know that Bo Randall ("the guy that invented the knife" I once heard him discribed as) was a World War II member of the CAP and went on sub hunting patrols off St. Augustine Florida?

    Just thought you might find that interesting.

    -kBob
     
  15. Pismopal

    Pismopal Member

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    Spend your free time in nice neighborhoods..avoid everyone who is more dysfunctional than you are. Do your home work...you don't need weapons.
     
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