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Self defense shoot

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by realmswalker, Jan 24, 2008.

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  1. realmswalker

    realmswalker Member

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    Another thread got me thinking about a scenario that has popped into my head before. I live in Ca and was wondering if someone breaks into your home and you retreat as far as you can into your home and the intruder comes into your room and says "I'm going to take your gun away from you and kill you with it." and begins to advance on you.

    I would personally shoot at that point. But I was wondering after all is said and done, when the investigation is done with no witnesses and no weapon being found on the intruder, what kind of legal trouble are we talking here?
     
  2. JesseV

    JesseV Member

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    That's what kitchen knives are for.
     
  3. realmswalker

    realmswalker Member

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    Hmm, so on a gun forum your answer for me is to run and get a kitchen knife. Brilliant.

    Here is a link for you my friend http://www.knifeforums.com/

    Anyone have an intelligent answer?
     
  4. JesseV

    JesseV Member

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    I don't think you understood my meaning. What I'm wondering is why you would ever let someone that you were forced to shoot inside your home be found without a weapon.

    As in, shoot him and make sure that he has a weapon (kitchen knife, for instance) before the cops show up.
     
  5. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    leave california
     
  6. eric.cartman

    eric.cartman Member

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    by far the most intelligent answer so far :D
     
  7. realmswalker

    realmswalker Member

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    Being as I am in law enforcement jesse, this not only tramps all over my moral grounds, but kind of makes me sad that you would plant evidence. And when It was found that you planted evidence, I have a feeling it would go much worse for you than if he had no weapon at all.

    I assume all the intelligent people have gone to bed.
     
  8. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    He is in your home and shows intent to do great harm and/or death .. A self-defense shoot would be justified
     
  9. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    Then you should KNOW the answer to the question you have asked..
     
  10. BobbyQuickdraw

    BobbyQuickdraw Member

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    If someone breaks into your home and makes any aggressive move towards you, he has demonstrated an intent to harm your physical well being. Regardless of what he says to you, you are in your legal right to engage in an act of self-defense.

    Remember, every human being (well almost) is carrying a set of 5 weapons - 2 arms, 2 legs, and a mouth full of teeth. You can get killed by someones bare hands or kicks, or get bit hard in a tussle. Don't take that chance, because he may just kill you in the most brutal ways imaginable.

    As always: Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.
     
  11. realmswalker

    realmswalker Member

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    I know why I would shoot, but if this came to a jury trial, the statement, which would definitely help me, would be impossible to prove. It was just a weird scenario that could possibly happen and was looking for someone who may have heard of or experienced close to the same thing and how it worked out for them.
     
  12. realmswalker

    realmswalker Member

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    I am a Jailer not a street cop.
     
  13. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    I don't think it would come to that .. But who knows in Ca
     
  14. cpttango30

    cpttango30 Member

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    One toe in side my house is too far if you are uninvited. Get video cameras and place them all over the house that way you can record it all on tape. That way you can show the police that he did intend to kill you when he says "I'm going to take your gun away from you and kill you with it." Yes you can get surveillance cameras with sound recording on them.

    If not I agree with bobby: As always: Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6.
     
  15. x-ricer

    x-ricer Member

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    in california, if there is sign of forced entry, then you it would be considered a good shoot.

    the forced entry puts you in fear of your life.

    if your garage door is open....and you go into your garage and shoot bg, then it would be a bad shoot since there is no forced entry...
     
  16. Glockamania®

    Glockamania® Member

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    According to CA gun laws for self defense.

    I'd also recommend that you take a self-defense handgun course in your local area for life application and training.
     
  17. CWL

    CWL Member

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    BG illegally enters your home with intent to do harm, you barricade in bedroom and BG crosses that threshold in order to do harm after you have declared ability to defend yourself. Shoot to stop the BG.

    Don't think CA laws, courts and juries are that unreasonable.
     
  18. larry_minn

    larry_minn Member

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    FIRST survive the incident. Second survive the aftermath.
    Lets look at your "senerio"

    .if someone breaks into your home and you retreat as far as you can into your home and the intruder comes into your room and says "I'm going to take your gun away from you and kill you with it." and begins to advance on you.

    I would personally shoot at that point. But I was wondering after all is said and done, when the investigation is done with no witnesses and no weapon being found on the intruder, what kind of legal trouble are we talking here


    Someone has broken into your house. (not required but helpful if they had to smash something to get in) You did retreat (and hopefully at least dialed 911 on a phone/told dispatch "There is a man attacking me in my house") The intruder continues the attack and threatens to kill you. You do know that EVERY call is a gun call (they have a gun so there WILL be a gun there)
    I don't know if Kalif has a "reatreat law" (if possible you MUST retreat from a threat if you can do it safely) I.E. if you can go out back door you must.
    MN used to have that type of law. IF you didn't know about it you would get into trouble. You need to articulate a reason why you couldn't retreat. (or be smart enough to not give statement until you have talked to your lawyer) :(

    Its the pits but a person really NEEDS to get local info. Not just your state but your areas (slant) on things. :( :( There are key words you need to hit. Some basics are "fear for my life" " I couldn't get away" "he wouldn't stop" "I think I am going to be sick/can I have some water/ *and if you feel tight in chest/other* Would you take me to hospital I (whatever is feeling wrong" It is not unknown for person who was forced to defend themselves to have heart attack.
     
  19. RKBABob

    RKBABob Member

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    If I understand your question...

    The bad guy forced his way into your house...
    You retreated as far as you could, because you were in fear of your life...
    When he entered your hiding place, you announced you were armed...
    He has had an opportunity to leave without violence, but refused...
    He has made verbal threats, and named the instrument he'd use to kill you...
    He is advancing toward the instrument he intends to use...

    I don't think you'd have much choice in this situation. You can shoot him, or risk being shot yourself. I think any jury would probably be kind of likely to agree, for the most part.
     
  20. HK G3

    HK G3 Member

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    You know, when you plant a knife on dead perp, you will get found out. It's just absolutely idiotic, and any reasonable person will find that someone who plants evidence on another person just looks guilty. We had a case in AZ where that was EXACTLY what happened, and within hours of the investigation, police found that the knife was a plant.

    Now they allege that the shooter invited the "perp" to his house with the intention of killing him. Shooter is currently looking at life for murder in the first.

    Anyway, the small portion of me which is an idealist, doesn't really think that anyone would be willing to find someone guilty of manslaughter when the BG clearly broke into your home, and you, cornered in the back, shot the BG. No need to plant evidence or anything, just don't speak to the police until you have a lawyer, and make sure you tell your legal council exactly what happened, then go speak with the police.

    I am a huge proponent of never speaking with LEOs, b/c I've seen others speak with LEOs, they got in way more trouble than they would have if they had just retained their right to remain silent, and speak with an attorney to make sure everything they said was proper by "legalese" standards. They never did anything wrong, it's just that the police enticed them to incriminate themselves in some way. It's not about not speaking because you did something wrong, it's just that one misstatement, and you have some charges to fight. Besides, properly using your rights doesn't make you a criminal, but I guarantee law enforcement would say things like, "Just talk to us, if you do, this whole thing could easily just get dropped, and you can go home in a few minutes" to try and dupe you into waiving your rights, and thinking that using your rights as a US citizen makes you a criminal.

    In CA, I have a feeling just not speaking to LEOs and making sure you explain everything to an attorney would be all you need to do. If anyone has more experience in this area, I'd love to hear from them, because I have been interested in what one should do after exercising their right to SD. Based on my limited experience with law enforcement (ie, my criminal justice class in undergrad, and speaking with my law school buddies), talking to them is just a bad idea, since when they talk to you, they are just gathering evidence against you, and not so much trying to figure out what happened, although that's part of it.
     
  21. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    Pyramid of deadly force:
    1. Intent
    2. Ability
    3. Opportunity
     
  22. mekender

    mekender Member

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    me personally, i would have only retreated far enough to grab my firearm, no further... there is no need to barricade yourself in a room, no need to plant evidence, and no need to even wait for that person to verbalize their intent... they made their intent clear the moment they entered your home without your permission
     
  23. hotpig

    hotpig Member

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    It changes from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In my area shooting a unarmed intruder would not be a good thing.

    Best case scenario would be a ruling of justifiable homicide. It would be costly but at least you are still here. Often a settlement can be reached on financial restitution to the bad guy or his family.
     
  24. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Member

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    An excellent way to turn a perfectly good shoot into a grand jury indictment!

    Not exactly a High Road suggestion, not to mention immoral and illegal.
     
  25. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Member

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    :what::eek::banghead::banghead::banghead:

    An excellent way to turn a perfectly good shoot into a grand jury indictment. :uhoh:

    Not exactly a High Road suggestion, not to mention being both immoral and illegal. :fire::fire::fire:
     
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