Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Sen. Graham Offers Alternative Background Check Bill Backed by NRA

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Bartholomew Roberts, Mar 7, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    14,613
    Location:
    Texas
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...duces-background-check-bill-with-nra-backing/

    Basically, the bill says if you have ever pleaded "not guilty by reason of insanity" you are now added to NICS as a prohibited person. The bill also clears up a statutory definition of mentally incompetent to make it clear you must be involuntarily committed for being a danger to yourself and others.

    Apparently the prospect of a bill that says "background check" on it and is also backed by the NRA is being welcomed by many Democrats like it was a miracle from heaven. They are eager to get on board a bill that they hope will please a majority of their constituents.
     
  2. tyeo098

    tyeo098 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,060
    Location:
    The Old Dominion
    This seems too good to be true...
    I wonder if theres an AWB in there somewhere.

    I wonder if we can 'compromise' by adding a GCA repeal in there somewhere, eh?
     
  3. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    12,665
    Location:
    In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine.
    How is this any better than Lautenberg? Will this not also be ex-post-facto, with a lot of people who made pleas in the past having their penalties changed after the fact?
     
  4. GrumpyFNX

    GrumpyFNX Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    DFW area
    I think his proposal is sound but will be attacked from left and right.
     
  5. Arbo

    Arbo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2013
    Messages:
    290
    Location:
    Colorado
    It won't stop a single 'crime'.
     
  6. Ryanxia

    Ryanxia Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    Messages:
    4,301
    Location:
    'MURICA!
    If it helps the politicians sleep at night..

    As long as the other UBC DOES NOT PASS.
     
  7. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    12,665
    Location:
    In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine.
    I kind of agree, that I would rather see the gun zombies jump on this decoy than pass UBC, but at the same time, in a few years we would have another bad law we hate just as bad as Lautenberg....and no one but ourselves to blame for it.
     
  8. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,528
    Location:
    Central PA
    While you may be onto an important possible concern, "not guilty by reason of insanity" is a VERY heavy thing to have on your record. That means you committed a violent crime so heinous that you were going to face something on the order of life in prison or capital punishment -- and you didn't fight that charge! -- but you traded away prison or death for lengthy (probably life-long) involuntary commitment to a secure mental institution.

    That's not some misdemeanor charge you got 20 years ago for a little pushing match with your girlfriend or wife, and all of a sudden you're prohibited from buying a gun. That's some seriously scary folks who have been adjudicated to be criminally, murderously, insane.

    What seems ironic to me is that I don't see how that's not covered already. (Item "f." on the 4473)
     
  9. Solo

    Solo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    838
    Well, insanity is a legal term, and perhaps you can plead insanity without being diagnosed as mentally ill? Just speculation, I might be wrong. The insanity defense is used in a incredibly small number of cases each year, and is successful even less often.
     
  10. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    I would like to read what the bill really says. There is a huge world of difference between pleading not guilty by reason of insanity and actually being found to be not guilty by reason of insanity.
     
  11. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,528
    Location:
    Central PA
    True. However, I'd wager the number of people who've ever plead not guilty by reason of insanity , had that plea rejected, and then gone on to be acquitted of the crime is somewhere between zero and a whole lot less than one. ;) It tends to pretty much ruin your case when you say, "yes I murdered them but I was out of my mind at the time," even if the judge rejects the idea that you couldn't tell right from wrong in the moment of the crime you just admitted to.
     
  12. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    33,528
    Location:
    Central PA
    You don't get to make that claim and have it sustained just because you said so. You and your legal team have to prove to the judge that you really are/were insane and that involves having mental health professionals diagnose you as such and testify on your behalf strongly enough that you can be sent to a lifetime under lock and key in a mental facility instead of to the chair or a maximum security prison.

    It isn't a "get out of jail free" card. Folks who've plead the insanity defense aren't generally out walking around, and if they are eventually released, they certainly aren't lawful firearms possessors.
     
  13. RPRNY

    RPRNY Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,574
    Location:
    Front Range, CO
    The issue with ANY Bill is amendment. The Graham Bill sounds fine now, but what happens when it is amended in Committee or in the House? Then you have Republicans opposing a Bill with "background checks" in the title - also a win in the Democratic "mind "....

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
     
  14. Avenger29

    Avenger29 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,728
    Location:
    SC
    It's a trap, get an axe, anything Lindsay Graham is on board with don't fall for it because SOMETHING is in there that you don't want.
     
  15. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    14,613
    Location:
    Texas
    The bill is S.480. The text is not yet up on Thomas.
     
  16. NosaMSirhC

    NosaMSirhC Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    58
    +1

    Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk HD
     
  17. Texan Scott

    Texan Scott Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,184
    Location:
    The Texas Hill Country
    People can and do plead "Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity" without being diagnosed with anything. A lot of them probably aren't "criminally insane", at least by the rather heavy legal definition in Texas. That bar is set pretty high, specifically so that people DON'T literally get away with murder.

    I do understand the worry of treating someone as insane without a sound medical diagnosis and judicial ruling of such. The difference here is that the insanity plea, as Sam rightly pointed out, is an affirmative defense to a felony crime. It's an admission that an otherwise criminal (usually violent) act was committed by that person.

    This is NOT the same as some third party leveling an unproven charge of mental incompetence; proven or otherwise, the person themself has asserted that they were at some point mentally incompetent to the degree that they were incapable of determining the legality, morality, or possibly reality of their actions. A reasonable person might well assume that this does and ought to create a rebuttable presumption that such is still the case.

    We aren't going to "punish" anyone because we think they're "crazy"... if they have confessed in open court to being criminally insane, we're merely taking them at their word.
     
  18. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    481
    Some bill was passed out of committee today (senate).

    Was this it?
     
  19. k_dawg

    k_dawg Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    816
    Why did he not even attempt to mandate it apply equally to all citizens? e.g. 4473 is the maximum standard for any US citizen to own any federally legal firearm, including those in Washington DC and Chicago?
     
  20. Bhamrichard

    Bhamrichard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    Birmingham, AL.
    NO... No more.. the gun owners of this country have time and again accepted restrictions, limitations, denials, of a Constitutionally protected right. The line must be drawn, this far, NO further. We've already given in time and time again to appease the idiotic few. Sometimes you have to STOP accepting compromise after compromise.
     
  21. abajaj11

    abajaj11 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    149
    Amen to that. Don;t let up your guard. keep calling! even to express appreciation to Coburn, etc.
     
  22. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    1,790
    Location:
    AZ, WA
    So, then, you're in favor of a person who was just found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity being allowed to buy a gun? :what::eek::uhoh::scrutiny:

    I much prefer a compromise in which only persons who admit perpetrating major crimes while insane are affected to one in which we must accept universal background checks with permanent records amounting to back-door registration as an alternative to bans on autoloading weapons and high-capacity magazines.
     
  23. 316SS

    316SS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    590
    The OP never mentioned murder. Statistically speaking, mental illness is not a risk factor for violence. Demonizing the mentally ill is morally equivalent to demonizing gun owners. In any case, I can think of one example off the top of my head in which a person judged NGBROI should not be prohibited: What if someone were unwittingly dosed with a psychoactive drug, and committed assault while hallucinating? They did the crime, while temporarily insane through no fault of their own.
     
  24. paradox998

    paradox998 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    380
    Involuntary committed as a life-long standard for being denied 2nd Amendment rights is a very dangerous precedent. Let's say at age 19 you break up with a girlfriend and very very depressed. From your teenage point of view life is over. You are involuntarily committed for a week by your family and then treated as an outpatient with antidepressants for six months. Now you are 34, wife and kids and life is good but you are forever denied the right to own a gun. This is not an acceptable standard.
     
  25. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    42,978
    Location:
    Terlingua, TX; Thomasville,GA
    See Post #8.

    Read it again. :( And quit hunting boogers and dragging irrelevant "what ifs" into this.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page