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Senseless Tragedy in MN

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Eagle103, May 5, 2008.

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  1. Eagle103

    Eagle103 Member

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    http://www.startribune.com/local/18608114.html

    Let's say it again children. Guns don't mix with drugs and alcohol. We have enough against us without having fools like this in our ranks.
     
  2. nplant

    nplant Member

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    Oh my God. I can't even imagine what that man must be going through. He will have the image of his son standing up out of that bush screaming, and then falling back down for the rest of his days.

    If he was smoking pot while hunting with his kid, this was just begging to happen. Whether or not he gets any meaningful sentence, he will never get over what he did to his innocent boy.
     
  3. Picard

    Picard Member

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    I feel like he already received enough punishment by watching his son die. I can't think of anything worse.
     
  4. dennisH87

    dennisH87 Member

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    thats bull**** that hes charged with manslaughter. It was an accident. It is kind of ridiculous that he had that much beer just to go turkey hunting but i cant say that I've never drank a few beers while hunting. The problem lies in his target acquisition. sportsmen need to consider their target and be SURE that it is an intended animal that they wish to bring down. In my opinion the beer and pot had nothing to do with him shooting his son. It was his dumbass mistake of not being sure of what hes shooting. All the politics and media get caught up on any kind of substance and automatically blame it on that and not the person.
     
  5. Sans Authoritas

    Sans Authoritas member

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    There was a story not unlike this in Southeast Connecticut not too long ago.

    A father told his son to go circle around and drive deer toward him. The son took off his orange vest because it kept getting snagged on the brush. The father heard some rustling in the brush and shot at the noise. Killed his son with a 12-gauge slug. It would've been difficult to break any more hunting safety rules than they already had.

    -Sans Authoritas
     
  6. jon_in_wv

    jon_in_wv Member

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    Whats ridiculous is that the man went out with a weapon drunk and high and you think he should get a pass for negligently killing someone because he knew him?? Thats insane. His criminal actions got his son killed and robbed him of the rest of his life. The idiot who shot him is NOT the victim. Damn that makes me so mad when people make the negligent, stupid, drug abusing, piece of garbage the [email protected][email protected][email protected] Your KIDDING ME RIGHT?!?!? He broke the law and someone DIED. He deserves to go to prison. HE can regret his actions there and hopefully, IF he really feels remorse, he will reform himself and get off the booze and weed long enough to start acting like a FATHER should in the first place. If you relate to this guy because you do the same, than you should be ashamed.

    BTW; I've worked with criminals and drug abusers for most of my life. If you think he is likely to feel real remorse the way you or I would you are sadly mistaken. Many of these guys cry harder when they announce their sentence then they would at the boys funeral.
     
  7. P95loser

    P95loser Member

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    If your dumb enough to:
    1) Drink alcohol and attempt to hunt with a firearm
    2) Use marijuana and attempt to hunt with a firearm
    3) Take your 8 year old son with you while drunk and high and attempt to hunt with a firearm
    4) Separate from your son while on the hunting field, drunk and high, attempting to hunt with a firearm.

    And you end up shooting and killing your son you should be punished to the full extent of the law. This guy shouldn't be allowed to procreate.

    dennisH87, that is about the most ignorant and obnoxious thing I have heard in a LONG time. Just let me know where you go hunting so I can stay clear of your drunk self.
     
  8. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    some one needs to get dennis to read the definition of manslaughter
     
  9. Grey54956

    Grey54956 Member

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    Hunting + drugs + booze + kids = recipe for tradgedy.

    Gun and hunting safety is a serious responsibility. This guy failed in the biggest possible way. Go to jail, do not pass go.
     
  10. mekender

    mekender Member

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    should be charged with 1st degree murder... his consumption of drugs and alcohol directly influenced his act of killing... and his consumption was premeditated... so any actions he committed while intoxicated are also premeditated... should be the same for a DUI death too...
     
  11. JerryM

    JerryM Member

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    First degree murder would not seem to be an option, but he should be charged with manslaughter.
    I suspect that if you challenged his drinking he would say that he could handle it, and knew his limit. Don't lump him with those who cannot handle their drinking. That is what nearly all say who drink and carry a gun in whatever way.

    I think that there is no hurt like losing a child, and if you were responsible for his death it would be many times worse.
    I wonder what kind of hunter he was not to take time to identify his target. I guess it was the drinking and the drugs.

    What a tragedy, and there are others who have been hurt badly such as the mother, and others who loved the boy, and the dad. Their lives will never be the same. It "just 'aint worth it" to mix alcohol and guns.

    Jerry
     
  12. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Member

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    I hate to mention this, but he was below the legal DUI limit...

    Contrast this with Dick Cheney shooting that lawyer in the face after he'd been drinking...
     
  13. RedLion

    RedLion Member

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    ***! What an Idiot!!!!! :banghead:

    I wish I could thank him for solidifying our reputation with the antis.:cuss:
     
  14. Sage of Seattle

    Sage of Seattle Member

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    Negligent homicide is appropriate in this case, IMO.

    Doesn't matter to me if he was high, or stone cold sober. He was negligent, same as if he hadn't slept for three days straight, or drank too much coffee or whatever else.

    We all say that "it isn't the weapon that matters" dead is dead.

    Same here. Doesn't matter how he arrived at that point, what matters, unfortunately, is he arrived. If he deliberately set out to kill his son, that's different.

    Just like all the stories trumpeting all the GUN DEATHS in an attempt to demonize guns, this was simply mentioned to demonize marijuana usage.
     
  15. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

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    If you have alcohol & weed in your system when you're driving and have a fatal "accident"........... it's called manslauter so why should this be any different?

    Any hunter knows that booze, weed and firearms don't mix. He was absolutely flagrant about what he was doing and almost EVERYTHING that he did was illegal !!!

    Treaspassing, hunting w/o a license, shooting at a "snap or break", carrying a loaded weapon while under the influence and open bottles in his truck. WHAT AN IDIOT !! Why couldn't he have don't one more thing wrong and miss his target?
     
  16. luzyfuerza

    luzyfuerza Member

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    If the facts are as described, I couldn't disagree more that this was simply a tragic accident. Do you have any doubt that the alcohol and pot had some effect on this individual's ability to discern what he was shooting? I've been around a few people (for a minute or two) who feel that drinking alcohol and shooting or hunting go together. These people have not been as capable of identifying their targets and safely handling a firearm when they are influenced by alcohol. Why should this individual (or you for that matter) be any different?:banghead:

    In my book, it's not enough that a person who chooses to impair his or her judgement and then kills an innocent 8-year-old should go to prison. Unfortunately, the worst penalty that society has chosen to impose in this kind of case is a prison term for manslaughter. Frankly, I think that it merits a much more severe punishment.
     
  17. Srigs

    Srigs Member

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    P95loser you are exactly right.

    By the way, the father was poaching turkeys without a license so he should not have been hunting at all. It was not an "accident" it was negligence and I'm glad he is up on real charges!
     
  18. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

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    Negligence plain and simple to my eyes. Manslaughter in the least.

    One point that should be made in this thread is that it is possible to detect the metabolites of THC long after the intoxicating effects wear off. For a regular user (couple nights a week after work) that can be as long as 30 days post last consumption, longer if the user has a high level of body fat that the THC can be stored in. A hot urine test has zero bearing on the level of intoxication with THC and many other illicit drugs.
     
  19. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    A. I'd like to know what level of pot was in his system.
    B. .06 is below the legal limit for felony DUI (.08 or .10 in most states), but can still impair judgment. In many states, .05 is enough for a misdemeanor Driving while impaired.
    C. Whether or not the drugs/booze ACTUALLY affected his judgment, or whether he's just a massive negligent dipstick yahoo who shoots without ID'ing his target even while sober, is virtually irrelevant in my book as to whether he should be charged with manslaughter and spend a number of years in prison. First, just the decision to shoot without ID'ing the target is itself HIGHLY negligent, and when you also add in the fact that he certainly knew or should have known that the substances COULD potentially impair judgment, it makes it an easy call to charge homocide, to me.
    D. Prosecutorial discretion is there for a reason. In cases of close call, look to other factors. He was a trespassing poacher (allegedly) who also was highly negligent and under the influence - all taken together, this is a guy that needs to be tee'd up and spend a few years coolin his heels, whether or not he feels terrible killing his own kid.
    E. .06 alcohol just shows gross negligence or recklessness (combined with not ID'ing the target). But, *IF* it comes back he was also absolutely blitzed on weed at the time of the shooting, then he should probably be charged with "depraved heart" 2nd degree murder. ONLY if he was tanked beyond belief.

    All in all, I think he needs to spend a good 5-10 years minimum, along with his grief, to think on his dangerousness to society in the way he lived.
     
  20. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

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    Agreed. I'm willing to bet (if we had a migic time machine) the same would have happened if he'd had nothing to drink that day, and no pot was in his system at all (as has been pointed out, detected doesnt mean its still active and affecting you nessecarrily. 1 joint a week ago wont have caused this, but would likely still show up in the test). The problem was the guy did not ID his target. He was "sure" his son had stayed put like he was told to, and fired without being sure, because he assumed it could only be a turkey, because turkey hunting was the #1 thing on his brain.

    TONS of similar incidents all over the country by people who are stone sober. he was stupid, and reckless, and careless, and his son paid with his life, and he will pay with the memory of it forever, no matter what a judge does.Sadly, he isnt the first, and wont be the last, regardless of pot, or alcohol or anything. reckless is just reckless, doesnt matter why. We say not to blame the guns when someone gets shot, so we cant blame the drugs or the alcohol either.

    pot didnt kill the kid, nor did beer. His father did.
     
  21. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I'll take that bet!

    I think you may be splitting calendrical hairs, too, which would be pretty naive. Nothing to drink that day you don't think? Okay, then he got flat out wasted the day before such that he still blew a .06 some time later AFTER having killed his kid, called 911, had emergency folks show up and work on him, etc. Gimme a break!

    Fact is, Tony and Hunter were hunting in the LATE AFTERNOON. See the video below. If Tony could still blow a .06 in the late afternoon after drinking the previous day, at least some 16 hours previously, then he must have drunk into unconsciousness and passed out at midnight.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/04/21/dnt.dad.shoots.son.kare

    No, the moron was drinking that day, drinking and hunting with his son.

    I find it a bit amusing that there is debate as to whether this is manslaughter or murder given that the only story we have on what happened came from a guy with alcohol and marijuana in his system...like he is going to tell a truthful story? For all we know, he got mad at the kid and shot him.
     
  22. P95loser

    P95loser Member

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    JRFOXX, I have to fundamentally disagree with your statements:

    If we use this logic, every person who is drunk and driving and is convicted of vehicular homicide shouldn't receive any more stringent of a sentence over someone who was sober and truly in an accident. The difference between alcohol/drugs and guns is guns are not mind altering, alcohol and drugs are.

    No one knows whether he would have shot his son or not if he wasn't under the influence, but his sentence should be enhanced due to negligence. You use drugs and alcohol while hunting with your 8 year old son... you are negligent.
     
  23. #shooter

    #shooter Member

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    Right on brother! This was no accident and I do not know why people are apologizing for his behavior. It was no accident that he was drinking, smoking pot, and poaching. I wish his son didn’t have to die for his father’s sins. It is truly tragic but he needs to serve time for negligently killing a human being.
     
  24. USMC 1975

    USMC 1975 Member

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    I agree 100 %. Who in their right mind would ever endanger their own son like this ? The guy deserves everything he has coming to him.

    Chris
     
  25. RoadkingLarry

    RoadkingLarry Member

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    I'd support the death penalty in this case.

    1. trespassing
    2. poaching (he was not hunting he was poaching, he did not have a hunting license therefore he was not a hunter, he was/is a poacher.)
    3. while intoxicated with beer and pot caused the death of another human.

    I could push the button, flip the switch or insert the needle myself.
     
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