Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Be warned, the link goes to an article with big time spoilers.
Reason online has a pretty good article about Serenity.
Reason online has a pretty good article about Serenity.
"Serenity"--a gun slinging libertarian western in space (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Cosmoline
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Agreed. I loved the movie. Probably going to end up buying it on DVD as soon as it comes out. Even considering watching it again. And if I do, it'll be the first time I pay to watch the same movie again.
As for the libertarian cant, it was minor. It does promote a heavy suspicion of government, and questions government's intrusion into where it isn't wanted.
Reavers, well, who knows. I have a feeling in 20 years or so(don't think the reavers can last much longer than that, what with their tendancy to run around with unshielded reactors), that there'll be archelogical digs and such by strong-stomached individuals to figure out reaver reactions, social structures, etc.
If nothing else, maybe other reavers don't 'taste' right.
As for the libertarian cant, it was minor. It does promote a heavy suspicion of government, and questions government's intrusion into where it isn't wanted.
Reavers, well, who knows. I have a feeling in 20 years or so(don't think the reavers can last much longer than that, what with their tendancy to run around with unshielded reactors), that there'll be archelogical digs and such by strong-stomached individuals to figure out reaver reactions, social structures, etc.
If nothing else, maybe other reavers don't 'taste' right.
Warren
Member
SOME SPOLIAGE
I don't know if I'm as enthralled with Firefly/Serenity now.
Or should I say: River the Reaver Slayer?
Petite girl/woman kills human flesh eating monsters with medievalish weaponry, while her plucky back-up team exchanges wisecracks. Hmmm, where have we seen that before?
Only these monsters live in space, that is upstairs instead of downstairs in the sewers and as a twist the monsters use wooden stakes on the heroes rather than the other way round.
Whedon said there were no aliens in this 'verse, but what the hell is River? She ain't human, she was once but now she is a killing machine that can read minds. ***?!
If at the beginning of the TV series I was told that it was all a leadup to SpaceBuffy I would not have bothered to watch it.
I feel a bit cheated.
I don't know if I'm as enthralled with Firefly/Serenity now.
Or should I say: River the Reaver Slayer?
Petite girl/woman kills human flesh eating monsters with medievalish weaponry, while her plucky back-up team exchanges wisecracks. Hmmm, where have we seen that before?
Only these monsters live in space, that is upstairs instead of downstairs in the sewers and as a twist the monsters use wooden stakes on the heroes rather than the other way round.
Whedon said there were no aliens in this 'verse, but what the hell is River? She ain't human, she was once but now she is a killing machine that can read minds. ***?!
If at the beginning of the TV series I was told that it was all a leadup to SpaceBuffy I would not have bothered to watch it.
I feel a bit cheated.
Warren
Member
Justin, that link leads to a thread about some idiot Brit kid.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Oops.
I use computers very good.
Link is now fixed.
I use computers very good.
Link is now fixed.
On the proto-buffy comment: I happened to like that scene! From other comments, most people liked it.
Warning: spoilers!
River is a messed up proto-uber operative. She was selected on the basis of being psychic. Physically we know that she was in ballet class, and apparently showing promise. Mentally we know that they primarily programmed her during dream states, leaving her waking hours available for combat training. She was 'their most promising test subject', but had problems(said preperation driving her completely bonkers).
Ravoners are radiation poisoned raving psychos. Untrained, undisciplined.
Presumably they broadcast their intentions loud and clear(why she initially had so many problems around them). Thus, she effectivly has another sense telling her where all of them are, and what their intentions/impending actions are. Basically a jedi light, but with more killing.
Perfectly acceptable, given intrasystem travel taking days, not months, 50 habitable planets/moons in a single system, etc.
edit: Oh, and to make it perfectly clear, given Ravoners' tendancy for self-mutilation(including radiation), they're probably not acting at the peak of human physicality either. Sure, 100% of what they have, but not what a healthy human can do releasing the limits.
Warning: spoilers!
River is a messed up proto-uber operative. She was selected on the basis of being psychic. Physically we know that she was in ballet class, and apparently showing promise. Mentally we know that they primarily programmed her during dream states, leaving her waking hours available for combat training. She was 'their most promising test subject', but had problems(said preperation driving her completely bonkers).
Ravoners are radiation poisoned raving psychos. Untrained, undisciplined.
Presumably they broadcast their intentions loud and clear(why she initially had so many problems around them). Thus, she effectivly has another sense telling her where all of them are, and what their intentions/impending actions are. Basically a jedi light, but with more killing.
Perfectly acceptable, given intrasystem travel taking days, not months, 50 habitable planets/moons in a single system, etc.
edit: Oh, and to make it perfectly clear, given Ravoners' tendancy for self-mutilation(including radiation), they're probably not acting at the peak of human physicality either. Sure, 100% of what they have, but not what a healthy human can do releasing the limits.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
They also hinted at River's extraordinary combat abilities in the series more than once.
She attacked Jayne with a knife in one episode, and took out a bunch of Niska's goons in another.
She attacked Jayne with a knife in one episode, and took out a bunch of Niska's goons in another.
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
Warren
Member
The scene was well done and it made sense given the reality of the story. It was also better choreographed than any given Buffy fight scene but it is ultimately the same thing.
And I never said Reavers were aliens. I said, in so many words, that they were vampires.
Warren
Member
Yes, I know. However at the time I watched that ep on broadcast and later on DVD I had not ever seen an ep of Buffy so I did not make the connection.
Hobie
Member
Please note that the two major languages are Chinese and American English. You figure out WHY. Note that the "national language" is CHINESE. 
I find it heartening that Libertarians (and I agree that the protagonists are such) have a fan base. This is one way to change the hearts and minds of the young.
I find it heartening that Libertarians (and I agree that the protagonists are such) have a fan base. This is one way to change the hearts and minds of the young.Strings
Member
---*SPOILERS*---
Yes, you COULD see River as a "Buffy in Space". However, I think it is a bit different:
1) River wasn't "created to fight Reavers". She was programmed by government scientists, who were probably just seeing how far they could go with her full potential.
2)The premis of the overall story (taking the movie as just another episode of the series) doesn't concentrate on RIver, but rather the crew as a whole. Now, you could argue that later seasons of Buffy did the same, but not to the same extent...
3)The Reavers themselves are explained in the movie as a relatvly short-lived occurance, whereas the Vampires of Buffy are probably gonna be around for the foreseeable future...
There were some other interesting little tidbits:
River's mental instability was magnified by knowing "the Secret of Miranda". Now that this has been publicised, she's got a more even keel. She's still an unhinged teenager, but she's got a little more control...
What happened to Wash, to me, was more to allow more growth for Zoe. Hardcore killer to loving wife to broken hearted killer to?
They never DID say what Book had been, but I have to agree with "Operative", and I'd bet his Ident Card gave similar info to the Opertive's handprint in the film. Something tells me that Book and the Operative would've had an interesting little discussion, had they been permitted...
And are Mal and Inara FINALLY going to get together, or what? That's the obvious direction, but Joss isn't known for doing the obvious...
Yes, you COULD see River as a "Buffy in Space". However, I think it is a bit different:
1) River wasn't "created to fight Reavers". She was programmed by government scientists, who were probably just seeing how far they could go with her full potential.
2)The premis of the overall story (taking the movie as just another episode of the series) doesn't concentrate on RIver, but rather the crew as a whole. Now, you could argue that later seasons of Buffy did the same, but not to the same extent...
3)The Reavers themselves are explained in the movie as a relatvly short-lived occurance, whereas the Vampires of Buffy are probably gonna be around for the foreseeable future...
There were some other interesting little tidbits:
River's mental instability was magnified by knowing "the Secret of Miranda". Now that this has been publicised, she's got a more even keel. She's still an unhinged teenager, but she's got a little more control...
What happened to Wash, to me, was more to allow more growth for Zoe. Hardcore killer to loving wife to broken hearted killer to?
They never DID say what Book had been, but I have to agree with "Operative", and I'd bet his Ident Card gave similar info to the Opertive's handprint in the film. Something tells me that Book and the Operative would've had an interesting little discussion, had they been permitted...
And are Mal and Inara FINALLY going to get together, or what? That's the obvious direction, but Joss isn't known for doing the obvious...
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
I hadn't heard about Ron Glass having other commitments. That makes me wonder whether there was an external reason why Wash had to be the one to die. I want to believe!
If you watched the series carefully, you probably had a good idea what River's value to the Alliance would be. The crew speculated several times that she must have been intended to be some kind of psychic assassin.
And she TOLD Jayne she could kill him with her brain. Besides, she's a ship. She had a complicated childhood.
The longer I think about this movie, the less I mind the small things I mentioned. I think I just spent too much time trying to compare it to the TV show. Why do that?
If you watched the series carefully, you probably had a good idea what River's value to the Alliance would be. The crew speculated several times that she must have been intended to be some kind of psychic assassin.
And she TOLD Jayne she could kill him with her brain.
Besides, she's a ship. She had a complicated childhood.The longer I think about this movie, the less I mind the small things I mentioned. I think I just spent too much time trying to compare it to the TV show. Why do that?
Warren
Member
BIG SPOILER! Though iffn you just read Don's post it is to late
He died cause Zoe was likely the happiest person onboard Serenity, now she's not. If Kaylee had a super-sweetie he would have died or her.
If Jayne had a puppy it would have been eaten, raped, and killed by a Retreaver.
He died cause Zoe was likely the happiest person onboard Serenity, now she's not. If Kaylee had a super-sweetie he would have died or her.
If Jayne had a puppy it would have been eaten, raped, and killed by a Retreaver.
Warren
Member
Hunter rose
Your points are valid, it is just that Whedon likes this warrior princess thing a bit too much and he should try something new.
I'm suprised that in Toy Story Bo Peep didn't go all Jackie Chan on the other toys.
Your points are valid, it is just that Whedon likes this warrior princess thing a bit too much and he should try something new.
I'm suprised that in Toy Story Bo Peep didn't go all Jackie Chan on the other toys.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Ha!
Most artists, it seems, tend to find a pattern early on that works for them and stick with it. Spielberg is always big on family ties and connections in his films, James Cameron has big themes where the characters have to save all of humanity, the Wachowski bros. have characters clad in skintight leather having obtuse conversations gleaned from obscure philosophers, and George Lucas writes really bad dialogue.
You go with what works.
Most artists, it seems, tend to find a pattern early on that works for them and stick with it. Spielberg is always big on family ties and connections in his films, James Cameron has big themes where the characters have to save all of humanity, the Wachowski bros. have characters clad in skintight leather having obtuse conversations gleaned from obscure philosophers, and George Lucas writes really bad dialogue.
You go with what works.
Warren
Member
I wonder what would happen if in the Star Wars movies GL had just set the stage and the plot overarc and let Whedon do the dialogue and the inner thematic arcs.
Warren
Member
GL would have to draw up a list of characters that were not to be killed. Just to be sure they made it to the end of the movie.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
I can just imagine six Jedi igniting lightsabers and striking heroic poses surrounding the evil Sith Lord, who smiles viciously as he begins to untie his cloak. . . only to fall forward with a bang and a wet, sickening splat as the mercenary behind him puts a blaster bolt through his head.
It makes me smile.
It makes me smile.
M-Rex
member
You know...you folks talking about this movie is really, really making me want to go see it.
Zundfolge
Member
Don Gwinn said:
Sorry Don,
Cosmoline
Member
[SPOILERS!]
I avoided mentioning the slayings of major characters in the initial review, but it's now been brought up. Frankly I don't think ANYONE has any reason to be surprised. Whedon has been known for killing off major characters since "Buffy." He killed several during that series and continued the tradition by killing, IIRC, four or five during "Angel"--maybe more. It's part of the tradition started by such British science fiction as "Blake's 7," though even after all this time a lot of American fans just can't cope with it. They want their Spocks brought back to life, but it ain't gonna happen and they should just settle down and enjoy the extra drama.
Remember this whenever you get into Whedon's stuff. Any character can die at any time.
I avoided mentioning the slayings of major characters in the initial review, but it's now been brought up. Frankly I don't think ANYONE has any reason to be surprised. Whedon has been known for killing off major characters since "Buffy." He killed several during that series and continued the tradition by killing, IIRC, four or five during "Angel"--maybe more. It's part of the tradition started by such British science fiction as "Blake's 7," though even after all this time a lot of American fans just can't cope with it. They want their Spocks brought back to life, but it ain't gonna happen and they should just settle down and enjoy the extra drama.
Remember this whenever you get into Whedon's stuff. Any character can die at any time.
I was disappointed by only one thing in the movie.
IMO, it was very "stand-alone-ish". That is, it doesn't seem that it left a lot of room for a sequel OR for the return of the series.
Too many of the mysteries and tensions of the original show were solved. The characters are still there (most of them) and still good, but too many of the loose ends that were providing ongoing interest in the show have been tied up.
!!!!BAD SPOILERS!!!!
-Kaylee and the doctor get together.
-We know about River and pretty much all of her abilities and why she was crazy.
-River is no longer really crazy which removes a lot of tension that flavored the series.
-We know what reavers are and why, and the way I read it, the majority of them were wiped out in the space battle with the Alliance fleet.
-The Alliance's search for River is now ended or at least much reduced in priority.
-Mal and Inara seem to be on much friendlier footing if not quite "together".
-The mystery of Shepherd is hinted at if not solved, and since he's dead it's no longer much of an issue.
What's left?
Good movie, but I think it is definitely the end of Firefly...
IMO, it was very "stand-alone-ish". That is, it doesn't seem that it left a lot of room for a sequel OR for the return of the series.
Too many of the mysteries and tensions of the original show were solved. The characters are still there (most of them) and still good, but too many of the loose ends that were providing ongoing interest in the show have been tied up.
!!!!BAD SPOILERS!!!!
-Kaylee and the doctor get together.
-We know about River and pretty much all of her abilities and why she was crazy.
-River is no longer really crazy which removes a lot of tension that flavored the series.
-We know what reavers are and why, and the way I read it, the majority of them were wiped out in the space battle with the Alliance fleet.
-The Alliance's search for River is now ended or at least much reduced in priority.
-Mal and Inara seem to be on much friendlier footing if not quite "together".
-The mystery of Shepherd is hinted at if not solved, and since he's dead it's no longer much of an issue.
What's left?
Good movie, but I think it is definitely the end of Firefly...
Warren
Member
What's left?
The continuation of The War for Independence!
You just know the Alliance Navy was crippled in that fight against the Reavers and with the story of what they did on Miranda out the Indepenents will be able to use that to forment a new stage in the rebellion. With better odds of success with the Navy limping like it is.
The continuation of The War for Independence!
You just know the Alliance Navy was crippled in that fight against the Reavers and with the story of what they did on Miranda out the Indepenents will be able to use that to forment a new stage in the rebellion. With better odds of success with the Navy limping like it is.
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