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Seriously...how innaccurate are AKs?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Andrewsky, Nov 5, 2007.

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  1. Andrewsky

    Andrewsky Member

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    I always hear that AKs are so innaccurate.

    I'm wondering if this is just a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Lots of AK owners think AKs are innaccurate so they don't give it a proper break-in, they don't modify the trigger, they don't get better sights, they use the cheapest ammo available, and they don't maintain it as well as they would another rifle. So when they go and shoot it, yes, their AK is very innaccurate.:uhoh:

    Let's say you took an off-the-rack Yugoslavian AK in 7.62x39mm. You give it a good break-in, you use handloads, you solidly mount a 10 power scope, and you maintain it, what kind of accuracy in MOA can you expect?
     
  2. yesit'sloaded

    yesit'sloaded Member

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    I'm going to say everyone I have seen shot or shot or have friends that have shot have been from 7 to 2 MOA. The 7 was a homemade job and the 2 was a Vector at 50 yards. Average is about 3-4. More or less a nice AK is on par with a good SKS.
     
  3. Crunker1337

    Crunker1337 Member

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    The original AK47 assault rifle operated on the principle of quantity over quality. When you have 100 soldiers spraying 7.62x39mm at you, accuracy is not something that they necessarily need.

    Now, today, the AK47 is the most common gun in the world. Civilian AK clones here in the US can be had for $250 easy. They are still very cheap and attainable.
    This means that many civie AKs don't have the accuracy as a rifle designed for precision.

    But modern higher end AKs are accurate enough for deer-hunting, I'm told.
     
  4. wisocki

    wisocki Member

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    can be accurate

    I imagine most inaccuracy accounts come from ****ty ammo being put through ****ty wasr 10s. Some people hear it from soldiers who deal with poorly taken care of aks over seas.
    I have 3 aks. 2 are stamped, and get 3 inch groups at 100y. My arsenal SAM7 get 2 inch groups with good ammo. It has been broken in properly, and is milled. These factors may contribute to accuracy.
    The sights on an ak are close together, and therefore harder to be accurate with. If you have an ak, put an eotech or other red dot on there. I did, and was suprised how much better it made me.

    Some aks, but not all, are capable of ar accuracy.
     
  5. Kalashnikov

    Kalashnikov Member

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    Depends on the ammo. Good ammo gets pretty good results. It won't drive tacks but remember that the average human head is about 3 MOA at 100yds.
     
  6. aspade

    aspade Member

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    3 MOA at 100 yards is about the size of a baseball.
     
  7. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    1 MOA = 1 inch at 100 yards.

    My saiga can do 2 MOA when I get lucky.
     
  8. esmith

    esmith Member

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    It isnt just the barrel condition that supposedly affects accuracy. I hear that when someone is shooting an AK for bursts that the offset center of gravity on the AK bolt moves the muzzle direction more than that of other guns.
     
  9. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Member

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    heres the results of a totally shot out wore out AK I tossed together in 45 minutes for a demonstration.......

    http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=122&t=31796


    Esmith, I build some of the most accurate custom AKs many of which will shoot MOA all day long with no change any center of gravity etc... And yet no effect on accuracy..... 99% of AK inaccuracy can be traced directly to shooters who are either unfamiliar with AKs, improperly trained in accurate fire completally or simply not comfortable with the ergonomics of the AK based rifle when clamped in a shooting machine I can get excellent accuracy out of pretty much any AK and regularily match the groups we get outa the custom FALs etc...
     
  10. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    All the ones I have run across are quite bad. Spend as much as a base line AR on them and they will become almost as accurate as an AR.

    This is a combat weapon where most engagement ranges are under 100 meters. Designed to function under adverse conditions with a minmum of maintenance. Not a target gun.
     
  11. tnieto2004

    tnieto2004 Member

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    3 MOA seems about normal for a AK
     
  12. 686S&W

    686S&W Member

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    I've had a bit of an issue with my cousin's WASR-10. Seems the trigger like to bite when the bolt slams home. Thought I was just letting my finger off the trigger until I read about the phenomena online. Perhaps it's fear of a stinging trigger finger that may also affect accuracy.
     
  13. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    It all depends on the AK.

    As with all guns, build quality counts for a lot in the accuracy department, but it probably counts for more with the AK due to the wide variances in types of materials, clearances, tolerances, countries of manufacture, assembling companies (*cough*Century*cough*) and even different designs. My Vepr will do 2 MOA if I'm doing my part. My SAR-1 is 3-3.5 MOA. It borders on 4 if I'm not paying attention (those blasted sights SUCK).

    Now, that's holding sights and ammo constant. Improve the AK's sights, and watch the practical accuracy go up. Sure, the gun is mechanically no more accurate, but most people will get smaller groups with a good optic, or even just better irons.

    Add in ammo that is not churned out by the truckload by underpaid vodka-soaked workers...

    Add in a good trigger...

    The point is that while you may never make an AK into a true precision rifle, you can do a lot better than a box stock SAR-1, with fairly minimal investment.

    Mike
     
  14. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Member

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    686S&W, have your friend visit this artical

    http://www.gunsnet.net/Linx310/slapfix.htm

    Takes about 5 minutes to eliminate the Century trigger slap issue with a file or as described in the artical a dremel tool its a very basic correction of a Century poorly cast disconector
     
  15. esmith

    esmith Member

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    Alright that is fine, but you are misunderstanding what i said. I said when going full auto or in semi bursts, because the bolt's center of gravity is offset, it will move the gun more than that of one that is perfectly symmetrical. Now im no expert and im not sure that this is a sound logic, but i saw a special on the history channel about this and it sounded like it made sense.
     
  16. Wolfgang2000

    Wolfgang2000 Member

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    My SAR 1 also shoots about 3" to 4" MOA. I've found that Wolf is the worst. Lapua will shoot a little under 3".

    I never understand why people want to turn a combat weapon into a match weapon. The tighter the tolerances the more accurate, BUT the tighter the tolerances that less reliable it will become. In an interview Gen. Kalashnikov stated that he purposely designed the "AK" so that a hand full of sand could be thrown into the action and it still work. That is what a combat soldier, or anybody that is betting their live wants.

    Reliably is not as important on a range. Some where on this forum you will find a accuracy test someone did between the AR and the AK. I think the AK did well. Yes the AR did better, but not that much better. My SAR1 will constantly hit a milk jug at a 100 yards with a cobra sight attached. That is good enough to do head shots. That good enough for me.

    If you want a match rifle buy a rifle designed for the match. If you want a combat rifle the get a rifle designed for combat.
     
  17. jpwilly

    jpwilly Member

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    How many shots "groups" are we talking about? I shot 3 shots into less than a 2" group with my Lancaster (1.6mm reciever new chrome lined bbl) pretty quickly from the bench...then I shot a fourth time and my group was now 4" the 5th shot was 3" so on so forth shooting Wolf. The rifles are plenty accurate. I don't know why you would compare an AKM's accuracy, a Carbine, with a target rifles accuracy??? Shooting 10 shot groups the approximate size of a soft ball is plenty of accuracy for hunting BGs or deer. My only problem is duplicating that accuracy when not shooting from a bench!
     
  18. JHansenAK47

    JHansenAK47 Member

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    Supposedly some of the custom yugos can shoot 1 MOA if it's built right. They have thicker receivers and none of their barrels are chrome lined. I'm sure they were using a new barrel with some match reloads.
     
  19. SpeedAKL

    SpeedAKL Member

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    Depends on who/where you're getting your AK from. The milsurp guns, usually brought in by Century, are of indifferent accuracy. AKs were meant to be cheap, reliable, and easy to control under automatic fire. Typically, accuracy on the guns increases with assembly quality - thus, the Romanian WASRs are about the bottom rung of the latter when it comes to accuracy. The Yugo, Hungarian, Polish, etc. models are a little better. The AKs that start to get real decent accuracy are the higher-end guns built by specialty shops here in the US - Arsenal, Polytech, Vector, etc. The Russian Saigas and VEPRs are pretty solid as well.
     
  20. Eightball

    Eightball Member

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    Well, here's a story about mine. After consistently skipping a bowling pin from 230 to 250 yards with my M1 Garand and its irons, and doing rather well hitting them with some rough "blasting" handloads I worked up at 15 yards (not made for accuracy, by any means--made to go bang), I put a pin out at 45 yards, and could not consistently hit a bowling pin. Well, some may claim "shooter error", but I can do fairly well at 500 yards with a WWI Mauser's irons (consistent hits, just slightly off the target--or so my spotter told me), and do quite well with a Garand at 240 and a revolver at 15, but couldn't hit squat at 45? It frustrated me, so I sold it and bought an AR which, when I do my part, will at least hit the target every shot (though, I haven't had a chance to reliably zero it in as of yet...I'll work on that one).

    YMMV.
     
  21. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Member

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    esmith, that history chanel video is a running joke amongst folks who actually know and build AKs....... it was intentionally setup to show the M16 as superior accuracy wise than the AK, An actually an AK without a rate reducer is VERY accurate in FA (I own several registered as well as dealer sample FA AK based weapons) when the rate reducer is added then the harmonics go to cr#p however ya do not test any rifle for MOA accuracy in Full auto in the first place.... thats the first step to rifle accuracy ya are running in Semi auto or manual mode and would be exactly what the original post was asking about...... not FA accuracy, the AK will have more muzzle climb in FA than the 5.56 caliber M16 will simply as a result of fireing a 124 grn .30 cal bullet in FA as opposed to a 55 grn .22 cal bullet in FA.......... basics of firearms design and onea the things that makes the history chanel video such a joke, also the very first thing any real shooters notice right off the bat about that video (its ALL OVER the net BTW) is that the shooter is properly squeezing the trigger on the M16 but is very overly exagerated jerking the trigger when fireing the AK........... another firearms basic ya will find that the 5.56 cal version AKs will run right along with a basic AR15 for accuracy...... ya know an apples to apples comparison rather than an Apples and oranges comparison...... gues that center of gravity issue doesn't effect a 5.56 cal AK?


    Eightball, see above about AK ergonomics being the largest factor with most shooters some simply cannot shoot one accuractly especially if they are much more familiar with traditionally stocked rifles..........
     
  22. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    Accurate? My Vector anchored a small coyote at 225 yards with one shot, off hand. That's accurate enough.
     
  23. esmith

    esmith Member

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    Yeah dstorm im sure the history channel is all out against AK variants and is just making that to assure us all of how good the M16 is.

    First, tell me where this is carved in stone and why can't you.

    Sorry, no, i don't think he ever said anything about what accuracy would be in semi bursts or in controlled steadied single shots.

    Anyway i never said that what the video said was a sound and correct logic so don't get all pissy with me.
     
  24. Bartkowski

    Bartkowski Member

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    You could test in full auto, but it wouldn't show the guns capabilities.

    About the original post, I would say that you should be able to expect decent accuracy with good ammo. (2-3moa)
     
  25. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    "First, tell me where this is carved in stone and why can't you."
    If you don't know, I can't explain it to you.
     
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