Service Rifle Poll

Which Service Rifle

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My apologies for a super long post, it was late, I was bored, and apparantly poured all of my creative juices into that. However, "suffer" through it? No sir, I do not expect anyone to do anything that obviously so greatly pains them, however; even in the light of day it was still a well thought out, rational post. And I might add, most words are spelled correctly, and the grammar seems to be okay. I don't know what there is to "suffer" through...
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I agree, I thought it was a great and well thought out post. I dont get why people complain about paragraphs, just get thru it.
 
+1 on the VZ 58 Always been a big fan of the AK (and still am) but after getting my CZ vz 58, it has become my all time favorite.
 
I am surprised the AUG has not received a single vote. Also am surprised the m14 has gotten so many votes. Although, I would pick it over the m16, it is still surprising to see how many others would too.

Also, would have thought the venerable FAL would be more popular.
 
i choose the m-16 varient. why an ar/m4 is what i am most highly trained on compared to any other shoulder fired firearm. i have been using them for multiple deployments, and years in the army. however the most and best training i have had on them is in the civilian sector. that is what i am confident and best with. therefore that is what i would choose.
 
That is a logical reason to pick the m16.

Would it still be your first pick if you had equal experience with the others or no experience with any of them?
 
I would take the AK platform any day. Simple rugged design, can withstand harsh treatment, and I have yet for one to jam or misfire in any way.
 
Shadow Man said:
Dom, I never said that the 5.56x45mm couldn't take a deer. In fact, I said quite the opposite. What I said was that in less-than-optimal conditions, I wouldn't want to rely upon it as my sole rifle for putting meat on the table.

My apologies for a super long post, it was late, I was bored, and apparantly poured all of my creative juices into that. However, "suffer" through it? No sir, I do not expect anyone to do anything that obviously so greatly pains them, however; even in the light of day it was still a well thought out, rational post. And I might add, most words are spelled correctly, and the grammar seems to be okay. I don't know what there is to "suffer" through...
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Don't apologize for that post, Shadow Man. Very informative, and very well-written !
 
Guys in general....remember a good bullet design used with the .223/5.56 is MUCH better than your average FMJ loading in some of the other calibers. It's not conjecture or theory. It is plenty for humans at combat ranges if you hit the right locations. That is the hard part in real life.
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Danny, I will agree, the 5.56x45mm round has been doing yeoman's work for decades, and mostly succeeding at it. However, I feel I have to point out that a good bullet design in any common small arms caliber will be more effective than an average FMJ round in any other caliber...that is simply common sense. The average FMJ round for the military's 5.56x45mm round (I simply use that as an example because the military has more experience with the round than any civilian shooter) is the 62gr SS109, or M855 I believe. It has a "green tip" which allows it to punch through cover much more easily than its predecessor, the 55gr M193. However, that same ability to punch through 1/4in steel plates means that when you engage a target with the 5.56x45mm's standard FMJ round you are simply punching .223 caliber holes through the target...

However, if I compared the terminal ballistics of the M855 round to say, a hunters OTM, BT or SP round weighing 123gr (approx.) in 7.62x39, the data gathered would invariably swing in the direction of the purpose-designed OTM and SP rounds as being more effective. The same would be true of a 77gr OTM or SP 5.56x45mm round compared to a M43 or M67 standard FMJ round in 7.62x39. See what I'm getting at? Compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Such as: M193 vs. M43 (first gen round for each weapon system) or M855 vs M67 (second gen round).
 
I know what you are saying Shadow Man, I picked the FAL rifle on the poll and would interchange that with other .308's. More margin for shot placement with adrenaline pumping and good barrier penetration/wound cavities with any scavenged up hunting ammo.

I like the 7.62x39 also, I think loaded with 110 V-Max or 125 Ballistic Tip's it's hard to top for taking chunks out of meat with rapid-fire. The 110 V-Max especially would perform at it's best coming out with lower than 308/30-06 velocity. Uber-reliability is icing on the cake.
 
I went with the M-16 varient because its more accurate than the AK, though (as a military member I carry an M4) M4s and M16 are more prone to malfunctions. I guess if you would like to trade accuracy for durability, the AK would be your weapon.
 
Good question. I chose "other" because I'm really a fan of the bullpup concept and I didn't see a bullpup with the following feature mentioned; "Total ambidexterous ejection" for lack of a better term (I just made that term up). The AUG and Tavor were mentioned and while I hear great things about them, they still eject brass right or left. For "Patrol (I assume by patrol the OP means law enforcement) Rifles" I think a bullpup with forward or bottom ejection system would be the best possible option. I believe the bullpup design would be the best for shooting from within the car and exiting. And I think for patrol in urban areas the forward or bottom ejection is essential for the ablility to switch shooting shoulders. So I say either the FN FS2000 or the KelTec RFB.
 
I voted for an M16 variant...I love the 5.56 but a variant in 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel would be a winning combo. If you could stretch the definition of M16 variant to include an AR10 in 308 that would be my choice with an 18" barrel and a sound suppressor of short design.
 
Shadow Man, another voice saying your post was well done.
I'd love to try a KelTec RFB, but the price is waaaay out of reach for me. My vz-58 seems to be more accurate than AKM semi auto clones I have owned, (One we couldn't get on paper at 100 yards), very reliable and durable, still in service in the Czech Republic and twelve other countries. Downsides are heating, and magazines are nowhere near as easy to find as AR or AK mags, but that is changing. Czechpoint-USA has good mags cheap and plentiful, all made before the ban, for people who live in ban states with grandfather clauses - paperwork is on file.
 
It depends on the situation. Am I kicking in doors in Iraq, shooting from mountaintops in Afghanistan or buying a SHTF gun in the Eastern United States? One size doesn't fit all.
 
Thank you for the positive feedback on the post. It is much appreciated.

Patriotme: While some of us have been door kickers, and spent some time in the 'Stan, the general member on here has not, so I personally approached the poll from the perspective of a good SHTF gun.

And while no, one gun does not fit all, if you could only have one gun, which would it be? (hint: read my post to see what kind of tasks said rifle may be called upon to perform...I don't want to sit here and re-list them)
 
InkEd said:
Shadowman,

+1 on the AK

-1 on the longest post ever.
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If you don't want people to explain their choices a discussion forum is probably the wrong place to be. ;)

I'd concur with Shadowman's reasoning. My next rifle purchase will most likely be either a Kvar converted Saiga or .357 levergun. Gogo cowboy logistics.
 
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