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Shaking hands

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by bluejeans, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. bluejeans

    bluejeans Member

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    Something I have been pondering. Scenario: When doing security for church meeting or other community events... I’m hanging out in the back scanning and watching for latecomers through the glass doors. If I see someone I don’t recognize about to enter with their hand burried in a large coat of sorts... the friendliest way to see their hands is to open the door for them, say hi, and offer a handshake. This is a BAD IDEA seems to me... I’ve surrendered my strong hand ( exactly what offering a hand symbolizes: ‘ I have no weapons’) and i have closed the gap and given myself a huge reaction time... option 2. Verbally engage (hello etc) but maintain distance and hands free and just observe. Option3. Backup gun for the support hand; shake hands so the newcomer shows me his hand while my left is lightly rest on the out of site BUG ...
    or ???
    What are your thoughts
     
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  2. <*(((><
    • Contributing Member

    <*(((>< Luke

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    At our church we have greeters and we have security. Separate persons, so the greeters open the door and greet, usually with a handshake all the while the security team is wandering around and scanning. Maybe get some training between the greeters and security on how they need to interact with each other. One supports the other and vice versa, there should be security at all main entrances observing as the greeters are greeting.

    But like all volunteer positions at churches it's about man power and it's hard to get enough to serve. Our church seemingly does it well enough where we have an adequate amount of volunteers.
     
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  3. bluejeans

    bluejeans Member

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    Yeah small church. We started with 8 guys and are now down to 2 so we alternate sundays. We have no greeters. But we are small enough that it is easy to recognize newcomers.
     
  4. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    A handshake is nowhere near a good way to see if someone is armed or not, despite the etymology of the gesture. A handshake, along with every other part of the greeting, can give you lots of information about a person in a short amount of time. If you know how to read the body language. The best way to be prepared is having a BUG you can reach with your support hand. At handshake distance you do not have to be nearly as proficient.

    A better tactical alternative is to wave. Stand a moderate distance away from the door and greet from a distance with a wave and smile. If your church entrance is particularly small this many not work very well, but it is an option.
     
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  5. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Get a lefty to do it.
     
  6. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I vote for option #3.
     
  7. scaatylobo

    scaatylobo Member

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    When I was an LEO and on duty,I would go to many calls where I would refuse to shake hands with ANYONE ---- until I was POSITIVE there were not hostiles present.

    My job was to NOT surrender my weapon hand,and if I ran across was lefty = he could easily disarm me if my right hand was busy.

    I like the idea that the security team is not glad handing anyone..

    And I did the BUG with left hand often,but I actually did train for that too.
     
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  8. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Another vote for becoming proficient with the left hand.

    I'm left-handed myself, and have enjoyed a certain peace-of-mind when participating in a handshake with a stranger because of that.
     
  9. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    a nice sign that says church protected by guns would make bad guys think twice.
     
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  10. bluejeans

    bluejeans Member

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    As a matter of fact, I do train left handed. I had severe injuries that caused me to be left hand only for a couple of years ( left eye too) so it’s just a matter of making a lefty holster for one of my smaller pistols. I had considered moving my primary to my left side but my right is still a little bit faster and I’d like to not give that up
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  11. sota

    sota Member

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    I believe a Roadhouse reference is in order here:
    Greeters are the 'bouncers', you are the 'cooler'.
     
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  12. red rick

    red rick Member

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    I don't shake hands , to many nasty people out there .
     
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  13. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    Person to person contact is a great idea - if they're friendly.. if not, then distance is your absolute best friend... In social situations where 99.9% of the time a handshake is a confirmation - that you're "friendly" too... it isn't a bad thing at all. In church or synagogue or temple being unfriendly when you're in a security effort will end up badly most days. It is possible to be alert and ready for action without looking like a guard dog on a short leash. Something I was forced to learn as a young cop many years ago...

    Now for the realities... One on one contact with someone who isn't friendly at all can go one of two ways - but at really close quarters you aren't going to have time or distance to use a weapon. Your potential opponent is in the same situation so if you're willing to get extremely aggressive (we're not talking even barroom brawl tactics...) you can come out on top. If you can, watch how Secret Service operates at very, very close quarters - as they plan to attack and immobilize any possible armed individual at hands on distances. Yep, they're very well trained and experienced but immediate aggressive action can overcome a lack of serious defensive skills (and that equation holds for either side of a conflict).

    If it were me, I'd want my partner or team-mate to keep their distance while I make contact with anyone that I'm the slightest bit suspicious about... That way if things go badly my partner can use a weapon if needed. Me? I'll be entirely too busy winning (or losing). If a handshake goes bad you may still be able to hold onto that other hand, the first step to controlling an adversary... By the way, communication is critical if you're part of a team. Shouting the word "gun" as you go into action will usually draw an immediate response from not only your team members - but also the innocents nearby....

    The real problem with all of these sorts of speculations is that you might just end up too close to someone who really doesn't like you and intends harm. At very close quarters though, a firearm is just a club (and an awkward one at that...) for the violent individual who's armed, so at least you have a fighting chance....

    I spent years learning to read people (I was hopeless as a rookie - but learned from my mistakes). Learning to read people and learning how to deal with them while calming down a potentially violent outcome is a real skill. One of the few things I learned on the street that I hope I never forget. It saved my bacon on more than one occasion - all those years ago...
     
  14. Gridley

    Gridley Member

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    Agree with several above that handshake distance isn't a good place to try to draw a firearm. I'd consider a good knife. In my experience it is actually harder to find knife-fighting training than firearms training, but it can be done. Unarmed training is also a possibility, and much easier to find, though make sure in that case that the instructor teaches unarmed vs. knife/club/gun.
     
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  15. JeffG

    JeffG Member

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    At our church we have greeters and we have security. Separate persons, so the greeters open the door and greet, usually with a handshake all the while the security team is wandering around and scanning.

    Separate people is my advise.
     
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  16. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    Why intentionally limit the box in which you're considering your options?

    If you're right-handed, why not offer your left hand for a handshake? Really. How hard is that to consider?

    It can offer you a couple potential advantages.

    First, it keeps your strong hand free and unencumbered. From a martial arts and firearms instructor perspective and experience, this can be a valuable thing.

    Secondly, since approx 85% of people are right-handed, it might cause a moment's confusion on the part of the person with whom you're offering to shake hands (interference in their OODA Loop) as they consider how to respond. If they're of no ill intent, then it's just a slightly awkward moment for them. Smile and look friendly and welcoming. :)

    If they aren't of harmless intent, though? It might momentarily not only confuse them, but also "tie up" their off-side hand and let you use it as a "lever" to help you exert unexpected force that might compromise and hinder their ability to effectively use their strong hand, by turning them off-balance. Both situations might be to your advantage if they're anything other than of harmless intent.

    Besides, it's not a rare thing for some people to have their strong hand filled with something (Bible, coffee, holding a child's hand, etc) and offer you their other hand. Remember how that momentarily caught you off guard the first time it happened to you? That's what you want to use to your advantage if the time should ever come that you find yourself intercepting someone trying to slip in with ill intent. It might just buy you a moment's advantage in which to decide how to act.

    Think outside the box, because you can't know if a potential threat/opponent is only going to be acting within the "box" you've pigeon-holed yourself inside.

    Just some thoughts. There's arguably something to be said to have a plan that allows for you to deal with everyone you meet who may not have exactly a harmless and wonderful intention.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
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  17. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    I never offer a handshake but am usually quick to respond to someone who offers.

    I agree with those who say that distance isn't an optimal situation to go for a gun.

    Folks really need to learn some at least basic CQC hand to hand training. It helps in situations like this and many others where you may need to take steps before getting to your gun.


    The whole handshake but possibly defend scenario makes me think of the quote "Be polite, be professional but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
     
  18. fastbolt

    fastbolt Member

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    I didn't go there, but that's what was in my mind when I carefully worded my post to "have a plan". ;)
     
  19. paulsj

    paulsj Member

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    We have greeters but no armed security. I never carry a weapon into place of worship. Your problem is you have no faith.
     
  20. drband

    drband Member

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    Really???

    You don't personally know the OP or any of us. That's inappropriate.
     
  21. paulsj

    paulsj Member

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    One should have faith in God. If I had no faith I would not go to place of worship in the first place. Guns in place of worship are inapropriate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  22. bluejeans

    bluejeans Member

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    your decision to not carry in church is your perrogative and i respect that. i know there are people who feel this way which is why i always make use of a cover garment so as tnot to disturb anyone. i'm fairly confident that there are those in your congregation who lovingly keep watch for you in the same way.

    this is a gun forum not christian apologists' platform so i wont get off on the biblical case .. but i do think the biblical case is sound.
     
  23. Sovblocgunfan

    Sovblocgunfan Member

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    Faith in God isn’t usually a problem. Faith in fellow man, however, is something entirely different.

    Instead of condemning others for what you see as inappropriate behavior fueled by a lack of faith in God, how about you consider how inappropriate and judgemental you are to question someone else’s faith? Go pound sand, chief.

    OP, offering a hand is optional. There is always a way to be friendly and welcoming without shaking hands. You can smile, directly engage, open a door, ask if someone needs guidance or direction, and guide a person into loose custody of someone else. There is no need to make close physical contact. Your concern seems to be keeping yourself available to all options, and less so about getting the other guy to show hands. Yes? If so, then I’d work on not worrying about making physical contact. As example, study how loss prevention people in retail will teach how good one-on-one customer service will nearly always prevent petty theft. But they also teach never to make contact.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  24. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    pausj has trolled other threads before, typically attempting to take them off topic like he's trying to do with this one.
     
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  25. paulsj

    paulsj Member

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    It's difference of beliefs for me death is just the beginning of a wonderful journey. I feel 100% safe in place of worship w/o being armed. Given the world we live in I understand people being afraid.
     
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