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Shelby County Texas - Son Ticketed for Unlawful Transportation of Firearm

Discussion in 'Legal' started by gamboolman, Jul 17, 2009.

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  1. gamboolman

    gamboolman Member

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    My 23 year old was pulled over in Shelby County, Texas in the town of Center for speeding. The lawman asked him if he had a weapon and my son told him yes, a 20 gauge pump action. My son is a college student at East Texas Baptist University and is going to be a pastor. He is travelling all over East Texas and down to Houston to see Mom and Dad.
    The shotgun was/is legal.
    I was oversea's when this happened and my son paid the ticket instead of fighting the charge of " Unlawful Transportation of a Firearm"

    I went nuts when I heard about this but it is done now.

    Whats done is done, but this is totally wrong - I thought??

    Any comments and advice would be appreciated.

    Thanks, Mad Dad - gamboolman....
     
  2. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    Assuming your son is not a "felon" and was not in a place that would otherwise prohibit him from possessing the firearm, he was well within his rights to have it (and transport it).

    I live about 20 miles from Center and am very surprised to hear this happened.

    If you would like to discuss the applicable laws (and the event)...please feel free to join us here:

    http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_Forum/index.php

    Actually, under the Motorist Protection Act he could also have had a handgun with him (subject to certain restrictions).

    If it were me...I would not "let this go".
     
  3. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    Like you said, done is done.

    Now, the shotgun itself may be "totally legal", but that doesn't mean the way it was being transported was. Not being a resident of TX, I'm not all that up on TX law.

    Does it require the gun be unloaded? "Secured"? Inaccessible? Ammo secured separately?
     
  4. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    If I have any "advice" at all, it's to avoid the Internet and ask a lawyer who's conversant on this part of Texas law.

    For instance, from my own very limited knowledge, if you plead guilty you have given up any hope of recourse beyond seeking a gubernatorial pardon. But don't take that as gospel.
     
  5. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm having a hard time with this one.

    There are no long gun laws in Texas so this is a bit hard to believe. There is not a single law in Texas related to how, when or why a long gun is carried, other than a list of prohibited places like court houses, jails, schools, etc. Vehicles for absolute certainty have no restriction on how long guns are transported within.

    I'm having an even harder time with the idea that a gun law was broken but the gun was not confiscated and only a citation was written.

    Something here doesn't pass the smell test.

    What exact section of the Texas Penal Code was he accused of violating?

    The only part of the penal code that talks about unlawful carrying of weapons is 46.02:

    You will notice that long guns are not included in this, only handguns, illegal knives, or clubs.

    46.03 lists the prohibited places but inside a private auto is not one of them, and violation of most of these laws would result in an arrest, not a citation.

    There are various laws around disturbing the peace, threatening someone with a long gun etc of course but again it's almost a certainty that violating those would result in arrest and confiscation of the firearm.

    Something is missing from this story.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
  6. Deltaboy

    Deltaboy Member

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    Call your lawyer that doesn't pass the smell test .
     
  7. Rio Laxas

    Rio Laxas Member

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    Could it be a city ordinance? I know that state preemption would invalidate it, but perhaps they wrote him up for a now defunct law. Call the TSRA.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
  8. Hawkeye748

    Hawkeye748 Member

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    It might not be too late to appeal this citation. Check with a lawyer.
     
  9. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Definitely no such law on the Texas books.
     
  10. RX-178

    RX-178 Member

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    Under Texas State law, there was no legal reason for your son to have been ticketed. But, of course, you are talking about a 23 year old adult son. I wouldn't try to raise an excrement storm on his behalf.

    He was given a ticket, paid it. It's over, like you said. All I would do is inform your son that he had committed no crime, and there was no reason that the officer should have ticketed him in the first place.

    If he wishes to pursue it further at that point, by all means, help him. If he doesn't, then just chalk it up as new experience, so that it doesn't happen again.
     
  11. saltydog452

    saltydog452 Member

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    The arrest record is still there and it could come back years later and bite him. Sensitive job application, loans, CHL Permit, etc. Its worth looking into and that'd involve an attorney.

    We can be charged (accused) for most anything. Some of the writing performed by the nice policeman can get real creative.

    My expunction cost a smooth 1,000$. I think it was money well spent.

    salty
     
  12. doubleought 7

    doubleought 7 Member

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    Just one more case of LAW ENFORCEMENT ignoring law. All the pitiful screams of "they can't do that" do not change things "They did dood it"

    as salty dog writes We can be charged (accused) for most anything. Some of the writing performed by the nice policeman can get real creative.

    And contrary to Innocent until proven guilty, it is then up to the accused to prove they are innocent of the charges

    And as a Houston DA stated "The presumption of innocense doesn't mean they are innocent"

    And Chuck Connors AKA the rifleman opines Something here doesn't pass the smell test.

    Is the rifleman hinting that the young man LIED
     
  13. taprackbang

    taprackbang member

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    Ain't that the truth.
    Just what we need; Another nice policeman engaged in criminal activity.
     
  14. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Member

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    I always recommend my family who carry bring in their car a copy of the revised statutes. It's always fun to show the officer the actual law.
     
  15. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Nope, I am stating flat out that there is more to this story that is being told, either by omission or simply not knowing all the details.

    In this case there was a specific charge levied against the young man. When a cop accuses someone of breaking the law they must tell what law is being broken. In this case the charge is supposedly "Unlawful Transportation of a Firearm" except there is no such thing in Texas as it relates to long guns in a vehicle. So, the story is not complete.

    So, what law was broken?

    And, as I've explained to you before as well, if a cop DID do this solely based on a shotgun then it's a lottery win potentially for the young man.

    Either way, the story is not complete.

    As for the other things, I never claimed that cops were perfect, or that there were not plenty of bad ones out there.

    What I said, and I maintain, is that just because there are bad cops or bad DA's out there one should not hide in their homes for fear of being arrested for made up law violations.

    doubleought7 has basically suggested that Texans should not carry guns since they might run into a rogue cop or DA. That's pretty much rewarding this kind of behavior in law enforcement and I for one will not reward them for breaking the law.

    That's a ridiculous way to live your life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2009
  16. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    A law (or laws) don't have to exist in order for you to be [falsely] arrested for violating them. From the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) website:

     
  17. Flintknapper

    Flintknapper Member

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    If the original poster will PM me the name of the officer... I can find out something out about this incident. I know most of the LE around here and this incident allegedly occurred in the next county from me (a scant 20 miles from here).

    It is hard for me to imagine that the alleged incident took place (as described), but I will be happy to inquire.

    Flint.
     
  18. doubleought 7

    doubleought 7 Member

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    Chuck Connors AKA The Rifleman writes

    doubleought7 has basically suggested that Texans should not carry guns since they might run into a rogue cop or DA. That's pretty much rewarding this kind of behavior in law enforcement and I for one will not reward them for breaking the law.

    I did not "basically suggest" ANYTHING I only warned that in certain Metropolitan areas of Texas where the lawmen have had a proven record of it( published in major newspapers) in the past are still REPUTED to be ignoring what the law says about possesion of a pistol in a vehicle. Not certifying it is accurate and I don't care whether it is believed or not.

    The law that the Guardhouse lawyers keep quouting reads and I quote from Chuck Connors AKA The Rifleman

    (a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:

    As salty wrote some cops can be very creative in their writing.

    If stopped and the subject should come up can you prove you are the LEGAL owner of the handgun? And recklessly at a stop on the side of the road is not defined and is strictly in the eye of the beholder. The authorities in too many area in too many cases believe charge and let the courts figure it out. Sue them Lotsa luck. For what?
    Their stated attitude is "Presumsion of innocence does not mean they are innocence"

    I am fairly new to these shooters chat rooms. Who are these TSRA members and why do they seem to believe that cops always follow the rules? Is it true as someone posted that some TSRA board members are also on the Board of Handgun Control(Sarah Brady's wackos) This ought to be a Yes or No question no waffling.


    If the message can't be denied ATTACK the poster of the message
     
  19. doubleought 7

    doubleought 7 Member

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    Flintknapper wrote
    If the original poster will PM me the name of the officer... I can find out something out about this incident. I know most of the LE around here and this incident
    It is hard for me to imagine that the alleged incident took place (as described), but I will be happy to inquire.

    Flint.

    Incident happened inVA Is this the same Flintknapper who claims Deep East Texas as location And writes abiut Texas law? East Texas is a large area but I don't think it includes VA SOS The Law wouldn't have done that actual quote "It is hard for me to imagine that the alleged incident took place"
     
  20. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    The incident cited by the OP happened in Texas.

    Someone else appeared to disbelieve that you could be harassed [or arrested] for something that's not a crime, AT ALL. I posted proof to the contrary involving a blatant false arrest for nonexistent "crimes" which took place in Virginia.
     
  21. nalioth

    nalioth Member

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    Let's break it down - with color coordination . .
    If my meager reading skills are up to the task, the original post concerns an incident in Shelby County, Texas. Why would you think "Shelby County, Texas" would be in Virgina?

    . . or did I miss something somewhere?
     
  22. doubleought 7

    doubleought 7 Member

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    Sorry no message was referred to by Flint I just assumed it was the last case of harassmant posted. The one in VA.
     
  23. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    He paid the citation?

    How?

    I can't imagine the court clerk was able to find a penalty schedule for an offense that doesn't exist.

    I think you need to find the citation and let us know what iy says on it, and how much he... paid for it.
     
  24. gamboolman

    gamboolman Member

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    Update from gamboolman

    I am calling my attorney Monday. As I said I got in from oversea's Friday evening late and when my wife told me, I was upset.
    I will have our attorney talk to my son as he is on his own as he is an adult.

    It is just with him still being in college and we are paying for his schooling - (our choice and we are blessed that I have a good enough job that we can put our kids thru school) - I just hate to see him get a ticket/charge that may haunt him in later life.

    I do not blame folks for thinking their may be more to this story - I suspect/think the same thing. Our son has never been in trouble of any kind. He said he did not argue or say anything to make the Officer take the action he did. However, I too just have to believe their is more this than I know.

    He is a grown man, I will let our attorney advise him. And as Mom has made me realize once I calmed down - Dad needs to let him handle his own business and live with the consequences of his choices.
    Kids..........

    I will update the board with whatever the outcome is.

    Thanks for the responses and comments.

    gamboolman.....
     
  25. Cuzzin

    Cuzzin Member

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    Re the OP for TX - were children in the vehicle that could have had access to the gun? Was he on the campus of Panola located in Center? A citation for illegal transport of firearm is really hard to reach.
     
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