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Shipping a Handgun to yourself (under 21)

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Wilsonm180, Jan 12, 2012.

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  1. Wilsonm180

    Wilsonm180 Member

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    Hello,

    I realize that this topic has been touched upon, but I am looking for particular information.

    I am currently a college student in North Dakota prior to this being a Virginian resident. My parents gifted me a pistol upon graduation of high school, and I am now looking to ship this to me in N.D. The problem I run into is that while it is perfectly legal for me to own a handgun at 18, it's is illegal for a FFL to give me possession of a pistol. How do I get the pistol to myself in N.D. from VA? I know I can ship a firearm to myself through contract carrier per the BATF, but due to carrier policies they only ship to FFLs. Is there anything I can do? Any information would be extremely helpful!
     
  2. Wilsonm180

    Wilsonm180 Member

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    Thank you for the post. I take the link to say that I can ship the handgun to myself? As long as I declare the package a handgun?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  3. Telekinesis

    Telekinesis Member

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    Nope, if a FFL puts it into his bound book, the only way you'll get it back is with a background check (which you won't pass because you're not 21). How are you getting to ND? If you are driving, just bring it in the car. If you're flying, put it in your checked luggage and declare it to the airline (following all their rules like the gun being unloaded, limited ammo in the bag, hard side locked case etc.) and just pick it up with your checked bag.
     
  4. Wilsonm180

    Wilsonm180 Member

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    I would be taking the train, and carrying it with me would not be an option.
     
  5. David G.

    David G. Member

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  6. Wilsonm180

    Wilsonm180 Member

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    Thank you all for the replies. The question i have is does the Federal Government have anything against shipping a handgun to yourself? I know that i can ship a firearm to myself for any lawful sporting activities, but does this include a handgun?
     
  7. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Unfortunately, their "policy" conflicts with their published "UPS® TARIFF/TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SERVICE FOR PACKAGE SHIPMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES Effective January 2, 2012"

    http://www.ups.com/media/en/terms_service_us.pdf

    Printed page 5:

    According to that, at least the sender or recipient must have an FFL (UPS terms only, not statute).
     
  8. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    No. You can ship, not mail, it to yourself without violating federal law. You'll likely end up violating the shipper's policy/use terms, but nothing illegal would have occurred.
    Yes. You can ship, not mail, the handgun to yourself legally. If you break the shipper's terms of use, AND you end up having to file a claim due to a problem with the shipment, the shipper is no longer liable.
     
  9. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Also note when shipping a firearm to yourself in another state you are required by Federal law to notify, in writing, the common or contract carrier that the shipment contains a firearm, unless you happen to possess an FFL.
     
  10. tyeo098

    tyeo098 Member

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    Unless you disassemble the handgun and ship it as 'firearm parts' correct?

    Because while the receiver to the ATF is the 'firearm' to shippers its just a part.
    Ship the frame & parts in one box, and the slide & parts in another.
     
  11. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Their official tarrif, terms and conditions of service have read that way for several months. The same wording was in the previous edition, I am not sure what the effective date was on the previous edition.
     
  12. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    So, here is a question:

    What about shipping the handgun to an FFL in the desired state solely for the purpose of customization or repair, and then simply showing up in person to receive the returned firearm or suitable replacement? ;)
     
  13. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    Not correct. Following that advice could end up with you receiving meals, room and board compliments of the US Department of Justice.

    First, you would have to declare the frame or receiver to the common or contract carrier, in writing, as a firearm because Federal law defines the frame or receiver as a firearm and Federal law requires the written notification (shipping out of state to a non-FFL).

    Second, at least UPS, and to my knowledge FEDEX and USPS use the same definition of firearm as in Federal law:

    http://www.ups.com/media/en/terms_service_us.pdf

    Still want to try it? I would not recommend it.

    FEDEX:
    http://www.fedex.com/us/service-guide/terms/express-ground/index.html

    USPS:
    http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm

    Let me guess, it was a gun store employee who provided you with such false information?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  14. Wilsonm180

    Wilsonm180 Member

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    The problem with picking it up from an FFL is that they cannot give into my posession a handgun or handgun ammunition since i am under 21. If i send it through an FFL in Virginia, can it be picked up at my address in N.D.?
     
  15. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    You can ship it to yourself legally. Is there a reason you'd prefer an FFL ship it to you? The licensee can't mail the handgun out of state to anyone other than another licensee.
     
  16. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    Prior UPS tariff, July of 2011, introduced the 'FFL has to be in the loop somewhere' language. FedEx has had that requirement longer.
     
  17. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

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    If you deliver your handgun to an FFL for any reason other than solely for customization or repair, you cannot get that handgun back from them until you are 21. If you derliver your handgun to an FFL solely for the purpose of customization or repair, they may return that handgun, and even a replacement, directly to you, in person or by shipping it to your address, even across state lines, with no form 4473 or background check required, even before you are 21 years old.

    Well, if it is a handgun, it is illegal for a private party to mail. It is now against both UPS and FEDEX company policy. So what choice is there, other than to hand carry when travelling, or maybe a contract freight company such as Yellow Freight? I don't know, maybe you could do it counter-to-counter airline cargo?
     
  18. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    That's why I changed from 'ship' to 'mail' in my post (keeping all statements accurate). :D

    Back to my first post, if he's not going to haul it with him, he can ship it legally. He might end up violating the shipper's policy of course.

    It's like the time you shipped that Taurus via ground, you did your part, but the 'clerk' messed the rest up. He can always hope for that! :D
     
  19. swinokur

    swinokur Member

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    so which takes precedence, the Policy or the printed tariff rule? They both cannot be correct can they.?
     
  20. cane

    cane Member

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  21. Wilsonm180

    Wilsonm180 Member

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    @cane- that takes things out of proportion. They were involved with weapons trafficking to felons. I would guarantee that the ATF found the guns before an investigation happened, and that the situation was not based solely on the " not notifying the shipper"
     
  22. hermannr

    hermannr Member

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    Wilsonm180: If you are going on the train, pack it in your baggage. Amtrac will get it there for you. Just read the rules as to how it is supposed to be packaged.
     
  23. cane

    cane Member

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    Regardless of the other charges, Quinn was convicted of "to cause firearms to be shipped without notifying the contract carrier". So obviously it is against federal law to ship a firearm without telling the carrier what it is.
     
  24. medalguy

    medalguy Member

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    How about this scenario: The handgun is shipped to FFL in Virginia for transfer to his father, father signs 4473, then gifts the handgun back to the son. Legal?

    This is the only possibility other than carrying it in checked luggage aboard Amtrak.
     
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