Shipping Firearm and Ammunition

[brighamr]

IIRC, I have to use Fedex or UPS. Have to ship them in separate packages. Have to label the ammo ORM-D.

Do I have to declare the firearm or label it anything special? Are there any other things I need to do to "follow all of the rules" when shipping a rifle and some ammo? I haven't shipped anything like this in 12 years and I'd appreciate a refresher.

Thanks!

 

[mgkdrgn]

you are suppose to tell the carrier that it is a firearm, but DO NOT mark it as such in any way shape or form. You have to ship from somewhere staffed by UPS or FedEx employees ... not some strip mall "mailbox" store.

 

[dogtown tom]

Read the Shipping Firearms" sticky:http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=651375

 

[brighamr]

Thanks to all for the replies. One last question - I know that if I sell a long gun to someone living in a free state (Montana, Utah, etc) I don't have to involve an FFL. Is this the same with sending a firearm from Utah to Texas? (Meaning, do I have to send it to an FFL in Texas? Or can I send it directly to the buyer?)

I sincerely appreciate your help!

 

[tyeo098]

If the buyer does not live in the same state as you, you MUST use an FFL.

No way around it.

 

[dogtown tom]

brighamr Thanks to all for the replies. One last question - I know that if I sell a long gun to someone living in a free state (Montana, Utah, etc) I don't have to involve an FFL.

Where did you hear this?
Federal law only allows you to sell a firearm to a resident of the same state where you reside.
"Free" state has nothing to do with it.

Is this the same with sending a firearm from Utah to Texas? (Meaning, do I have to send it to an FFL in Texas? Or can I send it directly to the buyer?)

Did you read the "Shipping Firearms" sticky?

Who can you ship to?
All interstate shipments of firearms must be addressed to a licensed firearms dealer (often called an FFL). The exceptions are:
1. when you ship to yourself at an address in another state and
2. the return of a firearm you sent to a manufacturer to be repaired.

.

 

[brighamr]

Again thanks for all the replies.

DogTown - thank you very much for being so polite. Yes I did read the sticky AFTER someone pointed it out to me and before you made your post. As far as selling across state lines, if it's a FTF then no FFL is required. Where did I hear this? From the owner of a machine gun store here in Utah. States that do not require registration (free states) do not require an FFL for FTF transfers. Apparently this is not the same with shipping a firearm.

Again, I really appreciate everyone's polite and informative response.

 

[Deus Machina]

It might be worth asking your nearest FFL, too, since it looks like someone will be involved.
Last time I sold anything, I found that it cost me $85 to ship a revolver UPS. They demanded overnight and such, and were almost a 40-minute drive to get to their depot.
FFL's seem to have more options, and my last sale (a rifle) went through the one down the road for $35.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

States that do not require registration (free states) do not require an FFL for FTF transfers.

VA does not require registration, but that is not true in VA. I think you'd better double check that fact before you try it. If you ever ended up in court, saying the "machine gun store owner told me it was okay" is probably not going to fly. Even in the "free" state of VA, FTF deals can only be conducted between residents of the same state and any other transfers have to go through an FFL.

 

[oneounceload]

DogTown - thank you very much for being so polite. Yes I did read the sticky AFTER someone pointed it out to me and before you made your post. As far as selling across state lines, if it's a FTF then no FFL is required. Where did I hear this? From the owner of a machine gun store here in Utah. States that do not require registration (free states) do not require an FFL for FTF transfers. Apparently this is not the same with shipping a firearm.

That owner's advice is going to land you in federal prison. ALL interstate transfers (except the two mentioned above) require a FFL transfer, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

 

[Krusty783]

Handguns have to go by UPS or FedEx and they require that peons ship them Priority Overnight to maximize their revenues.

An FFL may ship a handgun ground.

Rifles may go USPS as regular mail, though insured priority with signature is a safer route. AR lowers and disassembled ARs are a bit of a grey area depending on what you read.

Ammo has to be marked ORM-D (shipping center should have some stickers) and, for UPS at least, has to be shipped from one of their Customer Centers, NOT a UPS Store; the UPS Stores are independent franchises. FWIW, I just shipped 3 boxes of rifle ammo to Dallas (sold with a rifle) and it was like $8 or something with UPS.

___
All interstate arms transfers require an FFL. Except maybe if you're shipping to yourself (Hypothetical Situation: You're flying through NY on a hunting trip and don't want your rifles with you given their "laws", so you ship the rifle to yourself at your destination and take possession when you get there). I've read about this on here but I have not tried it myself.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Thanks to all for the replies. One last question - I know that if I sell a long gun to someone living in a free state (Montana, Utah, etc) I don't have to involve an FFL.

NO you do NOT know that, because it is NOT true.

ALL firearms shipped across state lines, handgun or long gun, must pass through an FFL in the receivers home state.

 

[oneounceload]

Handguns have to go by UPS or FedEx and they require that peons ship them Priority Overnight to maximize their revenues.

Wrong, they require that so they can minimize theft by their own employees

 

[dogtown tom]

brighamr Again thanks for all the replies.

DogTown - thank you very much for being so polite. Yes I did read the sticky AFTER someone pointed it out to me and before you made your post.

Uh, I'm the one that pointed it out in post #3 above.

I asked why you didn't read it because your next post asked a question that's covered in the very first paragraph of that sticky.

As far as selling across state lines, if it's a FTF then no FFL is required. Where did I hear this? From the owner of a machine gun store here in Utah.

He's an idiot, and likely will not be a licensed dealer for very long once ATF reads this thread. He is giving you advice that will cause you to commit a Federal crime.

States that do not require registration (free states) do not require an FFL for FTF transfers. Apparently this is not the same with shipping a firearm.

It doesn't matter if you ship or carry the firearm by hand, it's still an interstate transfer of a firearm.

Don't believe me?
Read this from ATF, then decide if Mr Machine Gun Store Owner is an idiot:

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

And regarding the "free state" nonsense or "firearm freedom" laws, here's a link to the ATF letter to Montana gun dealers (the letters to other states with these silly laws are nearly identical):http://www.atf.gov/files/press/releases/2009/07/071609-openletter-ffl-montana-legislation.pdf

 

[oneounceload]

Seems the troll isn't coming back........... (wonder if the ATF paid him a visit? )

 

[Warp]

That owner's advice is going to land you in federal prison. ALL interstate transfers * require a FFL transfer, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

CORRECT.

I'm quoting and emphasizing this just to make sure people see it.

Too many recommendations for illegal stuff in this thread.