Shipping firearm to prohibitive States ie NJ, Cal, Ill, etc.

[bprevolver]

I have collected black powder replica revolvers for over 25 yrs. On occasion I sell one to a resident of one of these states. Federal law does not even recognize these revolvers as firearms. However, these states under their state laws want to require it's residents to go through an FFL. If I ship directly to the resident without the FFL I violate no laws of my home state and no shipping regulations. The responsibility for local laws is the residents responsibility is it not? Question is, what recourse, if any, does one of these state have against me? I am 84yrs old and have been collecting, buying, and selling most of these years and have for the most part ignore the ridiculous state laws as long as I observe the Federal Laws.

 

[Spats McGee]

Without knowing to which state you refer, it's impossible to answer your questions.

 

[George P]

His title says NJ,, CA, IL

 

[milemaker13]

I dont think there are any shipping restrictions here in IL . I believe i could get a BP firearm sent to my door. I'm in dupage(suburbs), not cook county (chicago).
Also, i could be wrong here

 

[Jim Watson]

I wouldn't do it. You would be opening up your customer to prosecution in a state requiring registration of C&B like breechloaders.

 

[P5 Guy]

NJ even restricts non-firearms like BP guns. There is no such thing as a projectile weapon that NJ doesn't restrict.

 

[rromeo]

California doesn't care.

 

[RickD427]

California doesn't care.

California is kinda screwy with regard to Black Powder weapons. California law does define them as firearms (refer to California Penal Code sections 16170 and 16520), but also exempts them from many other provisions of the Penal Code when unloaded (refer to section 16520(d)). The list of exempted sections includes the requirement to transfer through a licensed dealer.

This is one of the rare conditions where California does not exceed the requirements of federal law.

Penal Code section 16520(d) has "bit" a number of folks in the arse when they carry antique (including black powder) firearms concealed, carry then openly where prohibited, or when they possess them while being a prohibited person. Those offenses are not exempted

 

[GRIZ22]

IANAL but the problem is the prohibitive state could conceivably get an arrest warrant for you. I could see NJ doing this with the antigun administration in power. This would make you a "fugitive" and therefore a prohibited person from owning firearms. I don't think it makes any difference if the state declines to pay for extradition. You will remain a fugitive until the warrant is served or cancelled by the court.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...However, these states under their state laws want to require it's residents to go through an FFL. If I ship directly to the resident without the FFL I violate no laws of my home state and no shipping regulations. The responsibility for local laws is the residents responsibility is it not? Question is, what recourse, if any, does one of these state have against me? I am 84yrs old and have been collecting, buying, and selling most of these years and have for the most part ignore the ridiculous state laws as long as I observe the Federal Laws.

You ignore state laws at your peril.

While as Spats has implied there can be considerable variation among States, as a general proposition one may not assume that because he isn't present in a State that State can't have criminal jurisdiction of him with respect to an act he performs which has an effect in that State. For example, see RCW 9A.04.030(3) (Washington State):

The following persons are liable to punishment:

(1) ...

(2) ....

(3) A person who being out of the state, counsels, causes, procures, aids, or abets another to commit a crime in this state.
....

Of course, the details of both the conduct and the state law matter.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

IL treats BP as a firearm in that to acquire one you must possess an IL FOID card. There is no federal paperwork to do, but the seller must collect the FOID info from the buyer and keep it for 10 years. Additionally, the onus is on the seller to verify the buyer's FOID is valid via the IL State Police online tool--- https://www.ispfsb.com/Public/Firearms/FOID/PersonToPersonFirearmTransfer.aspx . All this is actually pretty easy....just get a copy of the buyer's FOID and input the data. Retail sellers take FOID info for ammo and BP firearms from IL residents all the time. Personally, I would not sell as much as a box of paperclips to Chicago or Cook County-----but the rest of the state is FAR MORE gun friendly than many believe outside IL. Good Luck!

 

[Neo-Luddite]

I dont think there are any shipping restrictions here in IL . I believe i could get a BP firearm sent to my door. I'm in dupage(suburbs), not cook county (chicago).
Also, i could be wrong here

You're mostly right...just need the FOID info

 

[rromeo]

California is kinda screwy with regard to Black Powder weapons. California law does define them as firearms (refer to California Penal Code sections 16170 and 16520), but also exempts them from many other provisions of the Penal Code when unloaded (refer to section 16520(d)). The list of exempted sections includes the requirement to transfer through a licensed dealer.

This is one of the rare conditions where California does not exceed the requirements of federal law.

Penal Code section 16520(d) has "bit" a number of folks in the arse when they carry antique (including black powder) firearms concealed, carry then openly where prohibited, or when they possess them while being a prohibited person. Those offenses are not exempted

It's not real screwy, a lot of states treat them like that. It's not a firearm for purchasing, but it is if you're carrying it loaded. Anyway that's not relevant to this thread, as he was asking about selling.

 

[PapaG]

I dont think there are any shipping restrictions here in IL . I believe i could get a BP firearm sent to my door. I'm in dupage(suburbs), not cook county (chicago).
Also, i could be wrong here

You will not get a dealer or catalog company to ship to you....has to go through a dealer in I'll. BP guns are no different than modern ones here in Il.

 

[milemaker13]

Huh... does that also apply to rifles and/or kit guns (rifle kits and/or handgun kits)?
Would farm n fleet sell me one of the prepackaged (modern) BP rifle starter kits? Rifle, possibles, bullets and pryo-pellets in a blister pack hanging on the shelf?

Oh, I mean w/o foid, 4473, waiting period and that jazz? I had assumed so but I could definitely be wrong ( it has happened before, believe it or not!)

 

[PapaG]

Without a FOID you cannot buy firearms or ammunition. Black powder guns are firearms in Il. Kit or finished, doesn't matter. If they sell you one without doing a 4473, it is a violation. Period.

 

[geim druth]

Under New Jersey law you could be considered the leader of a gun trafficking network. This is a first degree felony with penalties of 10 to 20 years in prison and up to $500,000 in fines.

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2016/title-2c/section-2c-39-16/

I would not put it past our current governor and attorney general to charge you and seek extradition to New Jersey. If you decide to sell to someone here you should first consult with an attorney versed in New Jersey firearms law.