Shipping firearms between states
- Thread starter Alex45ACP
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Mannlicher
Member
Normal way is for you to take the guns to your dealer or FFL holder in your location, and have that person ship to a FFL holder in the place you are shipping to. There is usually some fee attached, but no 'hoops' to jump through.
With that few guns involved though, I would just put them in the trunk of the car, and take them with me when I drove up.
With that few guns involved though, I would just put them in the trunk of the car, and take them with me when I drove up.
Hkmp5sd
Member
No hoops. You can mail firearms to yourself in any state (per federal law). Just box them up and ship them to the new address. Of course, they do have to be legal at your new place of residence and you must meet any local registration/licensing laws.
Chipperman
Member
You should not have to do an FFL transfer. They are going from You to You, there is no transfer between individuals.
For Fed law, just follow the shipping guidelines for the carrier you use. Check state and local laws, though.
For Fed law, just follow the shipping guidelines for the carrier you use. Check state and local laws, though.
Glock_10mm
Member
I'm sure you would do this, but make sure they are unloaded.
Zundfolge
Member
You'll have to ship the handguns "Overnight" by UPS or FedEx ... you can't use the USPS to ship handguns since you're not a dealer.
I assume you're going to be driving from FL to NC at some point, why not just put them in the trunk and save yourself the expense?
No FFL needed to drive your guns across state lines.
I assume you're going to be driving from FL to NC at some point, why not just put them in the trunk and save yourself the expense?
No FFL needed to drive your guns across state lines.
Car Knocker
Member
Should be interesting to see if UPS or FedEx will accept firearms for shipping to oneself.
I am curious as well, as a friend of mine is active duty military and he left a pistol with me for safekeeping during his tour in Japan. (obviously he could not take it with him)
He called today (coincidence) to let me know he is at his new duty station on the East Coast.
I am in California and need to ship it to him. FFL needed?
While I am considering using an FFL to ship, it is not my pistol, so it is not a transfer.
Arghh. Something so simple can be so complicated....
Bill in SD
He called today (coincidence) to let me know he is at his new duty station on the East Coast.
I am in California and need to ship it to him. FFL needed?
While I am considering using an FFL to ship, it is not my pistol, so it is not a transfer.
Arghh. Something so simple can be so complicated....
Bill in SD
Sure is. Just because it was for "safekeeping" doesn't make it any less of a transfer in the eyes of the ATF. No money has to exchange hands in order for it to be considered a transfer. The only legal way for you to ship the gun to him is through an FFL on his end, and your end also if California requires it.
Hkmp5sd
Member
If this is true, why does ATF allow you to ship a firearm to yourself at someone elses address? You can ship a firearm "Care Of" some buddy in another state so you can pick it up when you arrive. Hunters frequently do this instead of travelling with their firearms.
WeedWhacker
Member
We've gone through this before ( http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=194578&highlight=shipping+USC ).
The long and short: 18 USC 922 does not require you to notify common carriers (essentially, any shipper except the Postal Service) that the package(s) contain firearms of any sort. There is no need to ship overnight, etc., due to law, because there is nothing in the law which requires that. The only thing requiring such is the carrier's policy, and policy is not law.
I don't have a handy source which explicitly spells out that it is find and legal to ship firearms to yourself via a friend (or other out-of-state location), but that is the case per the BATFE.
The long and short: 18 USC 922 does not require you to notify common carriers (essentially, any shipper except the Postal Service) that the package(s) contain firearms of any sort. There is no need to ship overnight, etc., due to law, because there is nothing in the law which requires that. The only thing requiring such is the carrier's policy, and policy is not law.
I don't have a handy source which explicitly spells out that it is find and legal to ship firearms to yourself via a friend (or other out-of-state location), but that is the case per the BATFE.
Hkmp5sd
Member
You need to re-read that thread. The law DOES require a non-licensee to inform the contract carrier if he is shipping to anyone OTHER than a licensee.
mike101
Member
There are no FEDERAL laws against non-FFL holders selling and/or shipping guns to each other directly. Things get stickier when one of the parties is a FFL holder.
One method, that was advised by a gun refinisher on the Internet, was to remove a vital part (cylinder or barrel) and call the contents of the package "machine parts". He says that, technically, this is not lying, and you can ship any way you want. Hmmm.
I would just put them in the trunk and drive them to your new location, since you won't be passing through any gun-unfriendly states.
One method, that was advised by a gun refinisher on the Internet, was to remove a vital part (cylinder or barrel) and call the contents of the package "machine parts". He says that, technically, this is not lying, and you can ship any way you want. Hmmm.
I would just put them in the trunk and drive them to your new location, since you won't be passing through any gun-unfriendly states.
Because when you ship to yourself, there's no transfer of the firearm to another person. The person you ship to in care of has to be instructed not to open the package. In this instance, the firearm is being transferred from one person to another, interstate. So even assuming that ATF would buy off on the "safekeeping" thing as not being a transfer of the firearm, which I seriously doubt they would, it's still an interstate transfer of a firearm between two private parties.
Hkmp5sd
Member
I disagree. It would be interesting for an official ATF response.
Bass - ackwards
Patently absurd and completely BACKWARDS. ANY interstate transfer which is NOT an inheritance requires an FFL in the receiving party's state. RTFD !
This means that, not only is the use of an FFL not making things "sticker;" it is required by Federal law.
Patently absurd and completely BACKWARDS. ANY interstate transfer which is NOT an inheritance requires an FFL in the receiving party's state. RTFD !
This means that, not only is the use of an FFL not making things "sticker;" it is required by Federal law.
Same question, different situation
A friend of mine was given a pistol by her brother. She left the pistol back home (Alabama) when she moved here (Georgia). Her husband recently passed away and she now wants to have the gun in her home. How does she get it to GA?
From everything I've read on here, I'm guessing she can wait until the next time she goes to visit him and ship it back to herself overnight. (She flies out to visit him.) Otherwise, if she wants it now, she's going to have to have him ship it to her via an FFL?
A friend of mine was given a pistol by her brother. She left the pistol back home (Alabama) when she moved here (Georgia). Her husband recently passed away and she now wants to have the gun in her home. How does she get it to GA?
From everything I've read on here, I'm guessing she can wait until the next time she goes to visit him and ship it back to herself overnight. (She flies out to visit him.) Otherwise, if she wants it now, she's going to have to have him ship it to her via an FFL?
EOD Guy
Member
Hkmp5sd said:
Here is the regulation. It includes more than just transfer.
TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS, AND FIREARMS
CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES,
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
PART 478_COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents
Subpart C_Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions
Sec. 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.
No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or
deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows
or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person
is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of
business in) the State in which the transferor resides.
Hkmp5sd
Member
Yea, I know that part by heart. The question was this: If person #1 stores a firearm with person #2 and leaves the state, can person #2 then ship the firearm person #1 in his home state? Ownership doesn't change and ATF allows a person to ship a firearm to himself. Does that apply here or not? I know they allow a person to box up a firearm, leave it at a friends house and then have the friend give it to a shipper at a later date.
Could person #1 send person #2 a self addressed box, have person #2 place the firearm in the box and give the box to a shipper? That should meet the requirement of shipping to yourself.
Could person #1 send person #2 a self addressed box, have person #2 place the firearm in the box and give the box to a shipper? That should meet the requirement of shipping to yourself.
EOD Guy
Member
Hkmp5sd said:
#1 transferred possession to #2. #2 cannot transfer back to #1 in another state without going throughan FFL in #1's state. BATF doesn't care about ownership. Possession is what counts.
No. #1 is still transferring possession to #2 in another state. #2 is notshipping to himself. #1 is doing the shipping.
I have been working with State and Federal regulation for several decades and one of the first things I learned is that trying to use logic or common sense to interpet the regulations will only get you in trouble.
BATF is aware of all the name games that people try to use to circumvent the regulations. They might be amused by some but don't buy most.
Most Federal agencies, including BATF, are very open about giving clarifications to their regulations. It may take 3-6 weeks to get an answer, but most questions will get a straightforward response. Written questions should be sent to the agency's headquarters in Washington, not to local field offices.
Believe it or not, letters of clarification from Federal agencies do have legal status.
Hkmp5sd
Member
Ok, I believe you.
The Deer Hunter
Member
Alex 45, how do you legally own pistols if your under 21?
weregunner
Member
Just a thought.How about calling the local BATFE office in your region to find out.They ,ahem, wrote the book after all.Shouldn't the state attorney general's office be a source on this topic.
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