Shipping "parts" via USPS

[carnaby]

The BATF once made a case that a semi-auto was "readily convertible" to full auto based on several hours in a well equipped shop. I don't think they and the Postal Inspector would blanch at the idea of making a receiver "readily assembled as a weapon" by opening your other package from and to the same addresses.

But again the problem you refer to has to do with sending a firearm to someone other than an FFL or to the owner of the firearm (already been transfered on form 4473). What I am referring to is the sending, by USPS, of a handgun to an FFL, nothing more.

 

[deadin]

Well, it sounds like you have it all figured out. All I can say is 'Go for it'....
Myself, I don't want to screw with the BATFE and the Postal Inspectors.

 

[Gator]

Where does it say anywhere in anyone's regs that you can't ship a firearm frame only to an FFL via USPS???

You can't find it because such a distinction (between assembled firearm and bare frame) does not exist.

Does the GCA control the sale of firearms parts?

No, except that frames or receivers of firearms are "firearms" as defined in the law and subject to the same controls as complete firearms. Silencer parts are also firearms under the GCA, as well as under the National Firearms Act (NFA). Certain machine gun parts, such as conversion parts or kits, are also subject to the NFA.

[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3) and (24), 26 U.S.C. 5845, 27 CFR 478.11 and 479.11]

Emphasis added

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#a5

 

[carnaby]

And what does that have to do with sending it to an FFL via USPS?

 

[deadin]

OK, one last try and then I give up.
Note that the "mailer" must be a FFL and the "receiver" must be on the list of Addressees. I can't seem to find any example of what you seem to think is legal.

432.2 PS Form 1508
PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, must be completed by
each firearm manufacturer or dealer who deposits firearms for mailing. The
form must be filed with the postmaster of the post office of mailing.

Mailability Requirements for Firearms
Handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer or dealer, an authorized federal agent, or an authorized state,
territory, or district agent ONLY when addressed to one of the following addressee categories for use in official
duties:
Addressee Affidavit Requirements
a. Officer of Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine
Corps, or organized reserve corps.
b. Officer of National Guard or militia of a state, district, or
territory.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and
certificate signed by commanding officer.
c. Officer of the federal government or a state, district, or
territory whose official duty is to serve warrants of
arrest or commitment.
d. USPS employees specifically authorized by the chief
postal inspector.
e. Officer or employee of a U.S. enforcement agency.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and
certificate signed by head of agency employing the
addressee.
f. Watchman engaged in guarding federal, state, district,
or territory property.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and
certificate signed by chief clerk of department, bureau,
or branch of government agency employing the
addressee.
g. Purchasing agent or other designated member of an
agency employing officers and personnel included in
c, d, or e above.
Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and
certificate signed by the head of agency stating the
firearm is to be used by an officer or employee cited in
c, d, or e of the opposite column.

 

[carnaby]

Right, that part is not in dispute. Now here's the definitions from that same page:

43 Firearms
431 Definitions
431.1 Firearm

A firearm is defined as any device (including a starter gun) that is designed, or may readily be converted, to expel a projectile by an explosion, a spring, or other mechanical action, or by air or gas pressure with sufficient force to be used as a weapon.
431.2 Handgun

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (for example, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles) are defined as handguns. The following definitions apply:

a. Pistol or Revolver. A pistol or revolver is a handgun designed to be fired by the use of a single hand.

So it's ambiguous at best, whether or not a pistol frame is a handgun. Is a pistol frame a device (including a starter gun) that is designed, or may readily be converted, to expel a projectile by an explosion, a spring, or other mechanical action, or by air or gas pressure with sufficient force to be used as a weapon.? I don't think so, but I'm not certain. I suppose that you could convert (maybe not readily, dunno?) a pistol frame into such a device. I think of such a device as being all the pistol parts in one box, but I didn't write the law, nor do I have any authority in deciding the matter, so my opinion means squat here.

Firearms law sure is frustrating, can we all agree on that?

 

[Sir Aardvark]

If you try to get around the law by disassembling your firearm and calling it "parts", and then shipping those "parts" ILLEGALY, you will get busted if you got caught.

Try explaining it to the judge how clever you think you are by calling your disassembled firearm "parts", because I think the judge will know how to clearly interpret this one.

 

[carnaby]

er, isn't the frame by itself a "part"? That's the question. It certainly is the gun as far as transferring it to a non-FFL who has not already been in possession of the firearm, but for shipping purposes, given the definitions above? I think it's ambiguous at worst.

 

[Soybomb]

So it's ambiguous at best, whether or not a pistol frame is a handgun.

I don't see whats vague at all. I took a look at the text of the gca of 1968 which is where your shipping regulations come from. http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

UPS ahoy.

 

[carnaby]

I still don't see it. Why does the USPS definition mirror the GCA68 definition except that it specifically omits "(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;"

Seems like that supports my case even more, thanks

 

[waterhouse]

Odds are, if you want to send your pistol frame through the mail, you won't ever get caught.

But if you did get caught, and they wanted to press charges, I'm guessing the government expert witness would be from the ATF. And we all know how they define a serial numbered receiver.

The only definitive way to get an answer is to write to the ATF, and ask them if it is legal to ship a stripped pistol receiver to your gunsmith through USPS if you are not an FFL. They will write you back, and then you will have your answer in writing.

 

[carnaby]

I think you have the only answer, waterhouse. I'm going to do it.

 

[Gordon Fink]

It’s funny, isn’t it?

You might think that a government interested in controlling access to firearms would require them to be shipped through its own distribution system. Instead, we have to entrust the guns most useful to criminals to the work-release crews at FedEx and UPS.

~G. Fink

 

[brickeyee]

"Unless you're sending it to an ffl, then you don't have to. "

Title 27
Sec. 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.

(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written
acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other
container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph
shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger
who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the
trip.

What part of this do you not understand?
The shipper MUST obtain a signature when they deliver if a forearm is shipped.
YOU are therefore REQUIRED to notify the shipper if the package has a firearm.
All the internet crap about "other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, " (Title 27 Sec. 478.31(a)) fails to keep reading the section down to (d).

 

[Jim Watson]

No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written
acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package

And this applies how to the multi-kilobuck custom Colt SAA that I came home lucky to find behind the screen door?

I forget the exact gun or other high dollar shipment left unattended that had in the space under "Adult Signature Required" a line of scrawl that could just be made out to read "Adult Signature"

Many of the carriers don't know legal or company regs... or don't care. Not like it was THEIR stuff.

 

[waterhouse]

The shipper MUST obtain a signature when they deliver if a firearm is shipped.
YOU are therefore REQUIRED to notify the shipper if the package has a firearm.

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong. I receive packages that have nothing to do with firearms all the time, and some of these require adult signatures.

Could a person send something to an FFL (and therefore not need to say it was a gun due to the "internet crap about licenced importer . . .") and also require an adult signature as part of delivery of the package, also without mentioning it is a gun and still being in compliance with Sec. 478.31?


For about $3 Fedex will put the Adult Signature Required sticker on anything, not just guns.

Also, and I'm sure there are some legal definitions about the word "knowingly," the law you posted states that:

No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written
acknowledgment of receipt . . .

If you didn't tell them what was in the box, then they aren't "knowingly" delivering a firearm. They are merely delivering one of thousands of other packages.

 

[ilbob]

The shipper MUST obtain a signature when they deliver if a forearm is shipped.

Yes.

YOU are therefore REQUIRED to notify the shipper if the package has a firearm.

No. Only a signature is required. The law does not say you have to notify them, or that they even have to know what is in the package. Only that a signature is required.

 

[Soybomb]

What part of this do you not understand?
The shipper MUST obtain a signature when they deliver if a forearm is shipped.
YOU are therefore REQUIRED to notify the shipper if the package has a firearm.
All the internet crap about "other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, " (Title 27 Sec. 478.31(a)) fails to keep reading the section down to (d).

You might call these guys and ask them what part of it they don't understand

Snarky response aside though, (d) says you need signed delivery, and has absolutely nothing to do with notification. Paragraph a says you've gotta' tell the common carrier unless its going to a FFL, paragraph b says you can't put a GUN INSIDE sticker on the box, paragraph c says the shipper can't ship the item if they think they're breaking the law, paragraph d says it has to be signed for at delivery. Lets take the high road and avoid having egg on our faces when we're wrong.

With regards to the original question though, I think the ATF letter on this issue should be a great way to put it to rest too. Please post it when you hear back.