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Shooting 500 Meters is a #%@&*

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Jayhawker, Jun 11, 2009.

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  1. Jayhawker

    Jayhawker Member

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    A couple of weeks or so ago, I was on this forum showing off some targets shot with my Model 12 Savage .308 at 300 meters that turned out pretty good. Today, I took the same targets, rifle and ammo to 500 meters and have to say it let the steam out of me in a hurry. The pics are of the two best of six targets. Those other four didn't even have all five shots on the page. I was shooting due north. The wind was variable from six to twelve mph from the east. I was using a 6X20 scope. I was also using 150 Bergers which seem to be what the gun likes the best. I tried 175s but that really opened up the group. Is this about par for the course for a factory rifle (and a shooter inexperienced at 500 meters) or do I just need to keep practicing (and maybe get a more powerful scope)?

    The left target is 5.074" center-to-center. The right is 6.711". MOA at 500 meters is 5.75".

    [​IMG]
    By gunshooter
     
  2. Soke

    Soke Member

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    Is that..."good" at that range? I mean it is 500 meters..
     
  3. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Well your still at MOA. I think thats pretty darn good shooting there. The lighter weight 150s will lose steam faster and be moved more by the wind than a heavier round. Try loading up a 168 grain round. My 10FP loved the Win Ballistic Tip 168 grn rounds, of course the most expensive rounds I could find!

    Either way, a little more practice would probably shrink that up a little.
     
  4. .38 Special

    .38 Special Member

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    Hopefully the "hunters" who think 500 yard shots at big game are no big deal will take a peek at this thread.

    500 yards is a long shot, regardless of how much you paid for your rifle.
     
  5. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    I wish I could shoot that well at 500 meters...
     
  6. Jayhawker

    Jayhawker Member

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    Soke: That's part of the problem-I don't know what to expect. I tried several years ago with another rifle but gave-up on 500 meters in a hurry.

    C-grunt: No 168s available in this town. I'll have to order some.
     
  7. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    I wish I could shoot at 500 yards or meters!!!!!
     
  8. Jayhawker

    Jayhawker Member

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    P.B.: It's one of the few advantages of living next to nowhere.

    I'm really glad to get these responses. I'm retired and shoot during the week alone and really don't have a comparison base of folks to talk with.
     
  9. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    I live the a d**m city, I can't even shoot my Gamo air rifle :cuss: I can only occasionly go out and shoot. :cuss:
     
  10. Lovesbeer99

    Lovesbeer99 Member

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    I'll bet an 18 power scope might help, but other than that your problems is what? you shot just over 1 moa at 500 yards and ???

    If you were expecting 3" groups you are a master shooter, or just a master at setting expectations too high.

    Good shooting -
     
  11. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    Jayhawker, in order to avoid frustration and disappointment, it's always good to have an idea as to what we can reasonably expect in all forms of shooting. It would be useful to have a chart showing what an average, good, excellent and world class shooter can do at different ranges in different shooting positions with different firearms/calibers. However, until that chart is available, about the best you can do is to look at National F-Class records.

    F-Class has the TR class which is either a .308 or .223 caliber rifle that can be supported at the front and/or rear in the prone position. This is the closest comparison to your rifle and possibly style of shooting. The current national record held by Paul Phillips for 500 yards, 15 shots, slow fire, prone is 149-8x. The 10 ring is 1 MOA and the X-ring is 1/2 MOA. So he didn't shoot under 1 MOA because he had to score at least one 9. 15 shots is A LOT more difficult than 5 shots but it should give you an idea as to what's possible.

    The F-Class TR 20-shot, slow fire, prone national record at 500 yards is 197-7X set by P. Hayes so he/she also had at least one shot (and possibly three) outside the 10 ring so again, not MOA.

    I think you're doing a mighty fine job.

    :)
     
  12. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    And you ought to see what happens at 600, 800, 900, and 1000 yards.

    Wind is the big actor but lighting changes also have an effect out of proportion to the range.
    You can buy MOA at 100, you have to earn it at long range.
     
  13. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Member

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    Don't discount the wind coming at right to left, that and a heartbeat is more than enough to move your rounds.

    Try again on a calm day, and try to time the trigger break to your heatbeat- either before or after.
     
  14. usmc1371

    usmc1371 Member

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    You know whats really sad is there are "hunters" out there who couldn't even find that target in their scope at 500 yds but have no problem taking a shot at a deer or elk at 500 yds.

    Thats great shooting at 500 with a regular rifle.
     
  15. Jayhawker

    Jayhawker Member

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    1858: I'm shooting off bags on a concrete bench. Is shooting prone considered a more accurate method?

    Jim Watson/Dry Humor: Although Western Kansas weather, especially the wind, is not inclined to be nice to shooters, I'm going to try to wait until it swings back to the south again. I'm also going to try early in the morning to see if I can avoid heat waves
     
  16. xmanpike

    xmanpike Member

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    I still dont trust anyone who shoot in meter increments :)
     
  17. Jayhawker

    Jayhawker Member

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    xmanpike: Have we met somewhere before?:D
     
  18. MCMXI

    MCMXI Member

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    I would think a concrete bench would be about as ideal a platform as anyone could want for accuracy, but prone shooting is perhaps more practical and applicable to hunting and other situations. Regardless, F-Class is all shot prone and those are the target rifle (TR) records that I listed.

    :)
     
  19. Jayhawker

    Jayhawker Member

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    1858: I've been taking an online look at F class topics in Google. After seeing some of the equipment those folks are using, I'm a little more satisfied with my stock Savage and even the four other targets that had bigger groups. I think a 36x scope would be useful at 500 meters and I may have to start saving my pennies up for one. The downside of a more powerful scope though, maybe magnifying the heat waves we always put-up with out here.
     
  20. FlyinBryan

    FlyinBryan Member

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    yup, 500 is a long, long, looooooooong ways.

    have you seen that youtube video of the guy shooting at almost 900 with an ar15 and hitting the notebook sized plate almost every shot?

    just amazing!!!!!

    if thats your first crack at 500 id have to say it pretty darn good.

    better than i could do.
     
  21. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    500 meters is due to silhuette shooting, the Tucson Rifle Club I worked at for a while had a LOT of differant ranges - it was over a mile wide. All were measured in yards, except the silhuette range, which was graduated in meters, 500 of them.
    Remind me to tell you of the time I found a car on the far end of the 500 meter range, and nobody around...
     
  22. Detritus

    Detritus Member

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    exactly.

    I still remember the first time i settled in behind a rifle (a Savage 12FV in .223) to shoot at 600. It was one of the first F-class style matches held at my local range (non match use of the 600yrd area is difficult to arrange/setup).

    somewhere i have the score card but to be honest I was simply happy i was able to keep em all in the black.

    you're doing rather well to have two groups that small on your first go. don't take it hard you've exceeded that ability of a large portion of your peers. and it takes time and practice to go further.
    like others have said the wind is the probably the largest factor at this point. so of course if you continue down this road, and i hope you do, you'll spend time learning THAT skill set, and from everything i've seen nothing but range time can really teach it.

    anyway i have lots of other thoughts on this, but it's late and there are folks here who've forgotten more about long range shooting than i'll ever learn.
     
  23. Jayhawker

    Jayhawker Member

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    Thanks, one and all, for the encouraging words. One thing for sure that I've learned is that the folks shooting so well out to a thousand yards and beyond have indeed had to work to get there. Those pictures Zak Smith and others post make it look easy until you try it.
     
  24. DRYHUMOR

    DRYHUMOR Member

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    Those heat waves are your friend. As you adjust your view (focus) through them out to the target, it's a good indication of what the wind is doing. You can read it and use it to your advantage.
     
  25. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Several years ago when Ross Seyfried did his highly publicized one mile shooting with "Miss America", he did his best about 2 am when the air was the calmest.
     
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