280PLUS
Member
Well THAT policy works...
Shooting at Tacoma, WA Mall: Ongoing
- Thread starter Unisaw
- Start date
- Status
sounds like the earlier report was more accurate
"The Seattle Times also reported that Maldonado has a juvenile criminal history dating to 1998, including convictions on charges of burglary, theft and trafficking in stolen property, and court records show a judge had ordered him not to possess weapons. The newspaper also said court files show Maldonado had struggled with drugs for years."
"The Seattle Times also reported that Maldonado has a juvenile criminal history dating to 1998, including convictions on charges of burglary, theft and trafficking in stolen property, and court records show a judge had ordered him not to possess weapons. The newspaper also said court files show Maldonado had struggled with drugs for years."
mbs357
Member
That worked too.
deanf
Member
Yes. I'm well aware of that.
Are you sure the law backs up your theory that you're only tresspassing if asked to leave and you don't?
If I owned the mall, I'd see it like this: That sign that says "no weapons" is the equivalent of "no tresspassing" for those that are armed. So once you enter the property armed, you are tresspassing, whether asked to leave or not.
deanf
Most states require the owner/agent to ask you to leave, and then for you to refuse before it can be considered trespassing. This is a good thing. Otherwise a mall or other buisness could post little signs saying all kinds of crazy things i.e. no guns, phones, blue shirts, sun glasses.....
Dean,
Most states require the owner/agent to ask you to leave, and then for you to refuse before it can be considered trespassing. This is a good thing. Otherwise a mall or other buisness could post little signs saying all kinds of crazy things i.e. no guns, phones, blue shirts, sun glasses.....
Langenator
Member
Old Dog:
OD, I've seen the guy's mugshot...if you think he looked 'almost military,' you must have been in the Air Force.
Does that qualify as a joke?
OD, I've seen the guy's mugshot...if you think he looked 'almost military,' you must have been in the Air Force.
Does that qualify as a joke?
Old Dog
Member
This sign thing is kinda strange to me, since I've been in that mall a couple times (I live thirty minutes north) and never noticed them ... I absolutely can't believe that any WA CPL-holders who do see this signs don't pack in that mall as a result. It's still Tacoma, after all. It would have to be the only posted mall in W WA.
And Langenator chips in with
Uh, dude, not all of us sport those weird lookin' mohawks you hooah types favor ... And please, as far as the AF (not that there's anything wrong with that) ... I'm workin' on 26 years AD USN.
Looking at the article in today's Seattle Post-Intelligencer (was once intelligent, but isn't anymore?), I lost count of how many times they stated that he was using a semi automatic 'machine' pistol. Um... wouldn't a machine pistol be a full auto? Why call something a machine pistol?
Oh yeah- because they're quoting the prosecuting attourney, whose job it is to make this guy (and his guns) look bad.
The 'assault rifle' and 'clips' things I'm just used to these days, but the machine pistol one is still freshly annoying.
Oh yeah- because they're quoting the prosecuting attourney, whose job it is to make this guy (and his guns) look bad.
The 'assault rifle' and 'clips' things I'm just used to these days, but the machine pistol one is still freshly annoying.
Having had the dubious pleasure of enforcing such an assinine policy I can tell you that this is indeed how it works. In the state of Washington a "no firearms" sign has as much legal weight as a "no blue jeans" or "no shirt no shoes no service" sign. It is an expression of the land owners wishes, but the land owner gives up the right to restrict *entrance* to their property when they open it to the public. Under that circumstance one has to be asked to leave (and refuse) in order for them to be tresspassing.
NEWS FLASH, MALLS ARE JUST LIKE EVERYWHERE ELSE
Front page of the Tri-City Herald this morning, the 'voice of
mid-Columbia.'
Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:55
SHOOTING FLAGS MALL'S VULNERABILITY oh boy, here we go
Published Monday, November 21st, 2005
By RACHEL LA CORTE, Associated Press Writer
TACOMA, Wash. (AP) - In an instant, the controlled chaos of holiday
shopping turned bloody when a man strolled into a busy shopping mall and
opened fire on shoppers with an assault rifle.
Sunday's shooting rampage at the Tacoma Mall, coming just days before
the start of the holiday crush, highlighted the vulnerability of
America's shopping centers.
At malls across the country, thousands of people come and go, often
carrying bulky packages. No metal detectors check them for
weapons. And there is always the possibility that somewhere in the
crowd is a disgruntled employee, a jilted lover or a mental patient on
the edge. You know, I've been a jilted lover, but I don't think it
ever made me want to shoot anybody. As a matter of fact, I would think
that the mall is full of jilted lovers.
"If someone is determined, I don't know that you can prevent it," said
Capt. Mark Couey, who heads homeland security for the Washington State
Patrol.
But Couey noted that violence at malls is extremely rare.
"I don't think it calls for people to be paranoid or install metal
detectors," Couey said. "I don't think the public would stand for
either." This, from a homeland security rep, COMMON SENSE?!?
In the Tacoma case, Dominick Sergio Maldonado, 20, was arrested Sunday
after six people were hurt, one critically. Maldonado sent a text
message to his ex-girlfriend minutes before the rampage, saying, "Today
is the day the world will know my anger," the woman said Monday.
At the SuperMall in Auburn, Wash., a shopping complex a few miles from
the Tacoma Mall, security measures include video surveillance, 24-hour
patrols, training for security officers and a police substation. But
Dennis Nicholson, the mall's general manager, said such precautions
cannot necessarily stop something like Sunday's rampage. I.E. THE
POLICE CANNOT PROTECT YOU, MAYBE YOU SHOULD LOOK TO YOUR OWN
DEFENSE.
"We can't prevent that individual from doing that," see last comment
Nicholson said. "In this day and age in particular, I think that
the American public needs to be ever so more aware of their
surroundings. It doesn't matter if they're in a shopping mall or a
sports arena."
In the United States, there are about 1,200 enclosed malls and 44,000
shopping centers with a total of 190 million shoppers a month, said
Malachy Kavanagh, a spokesman for the International Council of Shopping
Centers.
Malls have long been considered vulnerable to terrorist attacks. In the
past year, malls in several states have taught security guards how to
spot suicide bombers through training offered by the Homeland Security
Department.
The risk is not likely to keep shoppers away from the malls.
"It's all about the time and the place," said shopper Deb Kraft, who was
walking in the Valley Mall in Union Gap, near Yakima. "I don't think
they're going to target a mall any differently than they will target a
football game or mini-mart or a liquor store."
Economists say that shootings like the one in Tacoma have no effect on
shoppers' behavior.
"Unfortunately, random shootings of this nature are not a unique event,"
Carl Steidtmann, chief economist at Deloitte Research. "I think until it
happens in a material way where there are mass causalities, I just don't
think it's something that crosses people's mind."
---
Associated Press Reporter Shannon Dininny in Yakima and Curt Woodward in
Tacoma contributed to this report.
So I'm wondering if the author of this report is affiliated with the TSA
worker's union, and is just trying to find an outlet for new work. Are
you ready to be wanded and patted down to get to the Sam Goody?
jmm
Front page of the Tri-City Herald this morning, the 'voice of
mid-Columbia.'
Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:55
SHOOTING FLAGS MALL'S VULNERABILITY oh boy, here we go
Published Monday, November 21st, 2005
By RACHEL LA CORTE, Associated Press Writer
TACOMA, Wash. (AP) - In an instant, the controlled chaos of holiday
shopping turned bloody when a man strolled into a busy shopping mall and
opened fire on shoppers with an assault rifle.
Sunday's shooting rampage at the Tacoma Mall, coming just days before
the start of the holiday crush, highlighted the vulnerability of
America's shopping centers.
At malls across the country, thousands of people come and go, often
carrying bulky packages. No metal detectors check them for
weapons. And there is always the possibility that somewhere in the
crowd is a disgruntled employee, a jilted lover or a mental patient on
the edge. You know, I've been a jilted lover, but I don't think it
ever made me want to shoot anybody. As a matter of fact, I would think
that the mall is full of jilted lovers.
"If someone is determined, I don't know that you can prevent it," said
Capt. Mark Couey, who heads homeland security for the Washington State
Patrol.
But Couey noted that violence at malls is extremely rare.
"I don't think it calls for people to be paranoid or install metal
detectors," Couey said. "I don't think the public would stand for
either." This, from a homeland security rep, COMMON SENSE?!?
In the Tacoma case, Dominick Sergio Maldonado, 20, was arrested Sunday
after six people were hurt, one critically. Maldonado sent a text
message to his ex-girlfriend minutes before the rampage, saying, "Today
is the day the world will know my anger," the woman said Monday.
At the SuperMall in Auburn, Wash., a shopping complex a few miles from
the Tacoma Mall, security measures include video surveillance, 24-hour
patrols, training for security officers and a police substation. But
Dennis Nicholson, the mall's general manager, said such precautions
cannot necessarily stop something like Sunday's rampage. I.E. THE
POLICE CANNOT PROTECT YOU, MAYBE YOU SHOULD LOOK TO YOUR OWN
DEFENSE.
"We can't prevent that individual from doing that," see last comment
Nicholson said. "In this day and age in particular, I think that
the American public needs to be ever so more aware of their
surroundings. It doesn't matter if they're in a shopping mall or a
sports arena."
In the United States, there are about 1,200 enclosed malls and 44,000
shopping centers with a total of 190 million shoppers a month, said
Malachy Kavanagh, a spokesman for the International Council of Shopping
Centers.
Malls have long been considered vulnerable to terrorist attacks. In the
past year, malls in several states have taught security guards how to
spot suicide bombers through training offered by the Homeland Security
Department.
The risk is not likely to keep shoppers away from the malls.
"It's all about the time and the place," said shopper Deb Kraft, who was
walking in the Valley Mall in Union Gap, near Yakima. "I don't think
they're going to target a mall any differently than they will target a
football game or mini-mart or a liquor store."
Economists say that shootings like the one in Tacoma have no effect on
shoppers' behavior.
"Unfortunately, random shootings of this nature are not a unique event,"
Carl Steidtmann, chief economist at Deloitte Research. "I think until it
happens in a material way where there are mass causalities, I just don't
think it's something that crosses people's mind."
---
Associated Press Reporter Shannon Dininny in Yakima and Curt Woodward in
Tacoma contributed to this report.
So I'm wondering if the author of this report is affiliated with the TSA
worker's union, and is just trying to find an outlet for new work. Are
you ready to be wanded and patted down to get to the Sam Goody?
jmm
HighVelocity
Member
Outlaw shopping malls. Problem solved.
Borachon
Member
When you outlaw shopping malls, then only outlaws will have shopping malls.
lance22
Member
Didn't They Ban Crime?
They ban guns on their premesis? I guess they should have also banned assault, shooting, robbery, and murder. It's funny that they post against LEGAL carry, but do not post against criminal activity. I guess that shows where their priorities are at.
They ban guns on their premesis? I guess they should have also banned assault, shooting, robbery, and murder. It's funny that they post against LEGAL carry, but do not post against criminal activity. I guess that shows where their priorities are at.
Last edited:
Cosmoline
Member
Forget the Seattle rag. The Tacoma paper has much better coverage, including this bit on the citizen with a handgun who appears to have backed the shooter out of the main mall:
http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/breaking/story/5351456p-4844130c.html
A confrontation between Dominick S. Maldonado, the Tacoma Mall shooting suspect, and the most severely injured victim, Brendan “Dan” McKown, 38, may have stopped Maldonado’s shooting spree Sunday.
...
http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/breaking/story/5351456p-4844130c.html
A confrontation between Dominick S. Maldonado, the Tacoma Mall shooting suspect, and the most severely injured victim, Brendan “Dan” McKown, 38, may have stopped Maldonado’s shooting spree Sunday.
...
acdodd
Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2005
- Messages
- 486
Man wounded in mall shooting had a gun
02:44 PM PST on Tuesday, November 22, 2005
By JIM KLOCKOW / KING5.com
TACOMA – The man critically wounded when 20-year-old Dominick Maldonado brought two assault-style weapons to the Tacoma Mall Sunday was himself carrying a gun, his parents said Tuesday.
Brendan “Dan” McKown, 38, is likely facing a lifetime of paralysis below the waist, his parents told the media during a press conference Tuesday at the hospital with McKown’s parents, Roger and Beverly McKown.
Two of Maldonado’s bullets reportedly pierced McKown’s abdomen and lodged in his spine, damaging his spinal cord.
McKown’s father said that he believed his son may have helped prevent the mall rampage from being worse.
“My son is licensed and registered to carry a weapon. It’s out understanding that he confronted the gunman,” Roger McKown said.
“Dan is always one who believed in protecting people and he put his life on the line for other people,” he said. “His actions and the actions of others like him may have prevented additional casualties by confronting the aggression and possibly changing the gunman’s action early the conflict.”
Dan McKown has worked for seven years at the Excalibur Cutlery store in the mall, where he is the assistant manager.
Roger McKown said that the store’s owner had agreed to keep his son on the payroll for the time being.
Dan McKown was also described as a a religious man who held weekly prayer meetings at his house, a photographer and a bit of a standup comic.
“He’s just brilliantly funny,” said his father.
Dan McKown was born in Tacoma General, the hospital where he now clings to life.
I have heard reports that he jumped on the shooter. In hindsight it might have been better to shoot him, but I wasn't there so it's only speculation on my part.
This is the first I have heard he had 2 "assault-style weapons". I did hear he had 1 rifle and 1 handgun. But the media never lets the fact get in the way of a good story.
02:44 PM PST on Tuesday, November 22, 2005
By JIM KLOCKOW / KING5.com
TACOMA – The man critically wounded when 20-year-old Dominick Maldonado brought two assault-style weapons to the Tacoma Mall Sunday was himself carrying a gun, his parents said Tuesday.
Brendan “Dan” McKown, 38, is likely facing a lifetime of paralysis below the waist, his parents told the media during a press conference Tuesday at the hospital with McKown’s parents, Roger and Beverly McKown.
Two of Maldonado’s bullets reportedly pierced McKown’s abdomen and lodged in his spine, damaging his spinal cord.
McKown’s father said that he believed his son may have helped prevent the mall rampage from being worse.
“My son is licensed and registered to carry a weapon. It’s out understanding that he confronted the gunman,” Roger McKown said.
“Dan is always one who believed in protecting people and he put his life on the line for other people,” he said. “His actions and the actions of others like him may have prevented additional casualties by confronting the aggression and possibly changing the gunman’s action early the conflict.”
Dan McKown has worked for seven years at the Excalibur Cutlery store in the mall, where he is the assistant manager.
Roger McKown said that the store’s owner had agreed to keep his son on the payroll for the time being.
Dan McKown was also described as a a religious man who held weekly prayer meetings at his house, a photographer and a bit of a standup comic.
“He’s just brilliantly funny,” said his father.
Dan McKown was born in Tacoma General, the hospital where he now clings to life.
I have heard reports that he jumped on the shooter. In hindsight it might have been better to shoot him, but I wasn't there so it's only speculation on my part.
This is the first I have heard he had 2 "assault-style weapons". I did hear he had 1 rifle and 1 handgun. But the media never lets the fact get in the way of a good story.
Langenator
Member
Update: This may confirm a couple of the earlier posts, including Farnham's.
Wounded man may have put brakes on shooting spree
Now, if he had a permit,and a gun, and didn't shoot, the question is why not? Best guess would be too many people around, either between him (McKown) and the shooter, or in the background.
Wounded man may have put brakes on shooting spree
Now, if he had a permit,and a gun, and didn't shoot, the question is why not? Best guess would be too many people around, either between him (McKown) and the shooter, or in the background.
Cosmoline
Member
It's something of a repeat of the Texas episode where the CCW holder was killed. In both cases the display of a handgun seems to have cut short a would-be rampage but in neither case could a short gun beat a long gun. In such a fight the odds are overwhelmingly against the short gun--esp. if the person holding it is concerned about hitting bystanders and the man with the long gun WANTS to hit bystanders.
NineseveN
member
Wait, did he actually have his gun with him at the time?
ny32182
Member
I thought it said in an earlier report that the guy jumped the shooter from behind (hand to hand), but was shot several times anyway, presumably at point blank. If he was shot from 20 feet away, I wonder if he had his gun in hand. Maybe he didn't shoot if the only shot he had was at the assailant's back... we know how shooting him in the back would play out in the media.
Also, I wonder if the CCW guy was shot before or after the assailant transitioned to the long gun.
While his actions were heroic, I don't see any indication from the reports that they stopped or slowed the assault, unlike the case in Texas where the guy with the CCW was able to wound the assailant (and probably would have stopped the fight entirely, except for the BG's body armor... I believe he got more than one round COM) prior to being killed.
Also, I wonder if the CCW guy was shot before or after the assailant transitioned to the long gun.
While his actions were heroic, I don't see any indication from the reports that they stopped or slowed the assault, unlike the case in Texas where the guy with the CCW was able to wound the assailant (and probably would have stopped the fight entirely, except for the BG's body armor... I believe he got more than one round COM) prior to being killed.
George S.
Member
NineseveN said:
According to local news reports, McKowan was armed. He was carrying his store receipts to a bank when he came across the shooter. He had pulled his pistol when the shooter saw him but Maldonado fired 4 rounds at him. One local TV station interviewed McKown's parents and his dad has called him a hero for taking action.
The TV spot also pretty much confirmed that McKowan's spine was torn up so bad that he will probably never walk again.
The TV stations are still in the dark (or not saying) as to what specific weapons the kid had outside of saying one was an assualt rifle and the other a machine pistol. At some point we'll probably see the weapons the kid had.
Most all the area malls have a no weapons policy. I usually completely ignore the signs. If one does a good job of concealing your CCW, then nobody should know. Hopefully the store owner will not fire McKown for having a weapon on him. I wouldn't be suprised if the Tacoma Mall management will probably try to take some sort of action against the owner of the store (and a KNIFE store at that) for allowing employees to carry a weapon on mall property.
A few years ago, the Tacoma Mall was not a place to be in at night. Lots of gang-banger roamed the place and pretty much made it an unsafe place to be. There is a TPD office in the Mall but it hasn't had a officer assigned there for a few years due to budget cuts. It's still used as a place for LEO' s to write reports, make phone calls and meet with other officers. There were apparently no LEO's in the office at the time of the shootings.
Old Dog
Member
One of the local stations (think it was KOMO-4 or KING-5) displayed a photo of an SKS, saying, "Maldonado was armed with an assault rifle that was a clone of this," and then showed a pic of a Tec-9 stating, "He also carried a clone of this semi-automatic pistol, known as a Tec-9." Clone of an SKS? And the pistol was a Cobray, maybe?
Hmm, as far as up,down and around Puget Sound, I've been to Bellis Fair (Bellingham), Cascade Mall (Burlington), Everett, Alderwood, Northgate, Southcenter, , Auburn Supermall, Kitsap Mall ... never seen "No Gun" signage at any of those ...
Exactly, as I'm sure 99.9% of all the CPL holders who patronize the Tacoma Mall do as well ...
- Status
Similar threads
