Shooting Lead In Redhawk

[Shimitup]

I know I'm going to get some excellent advice on this I've seen the posts in the past, search just didn't turn up the ones I remember. So here's the lowdown, I tried shooting lead in the Redhawk a few years back and got horrible leading in the first few inches of bore, MBC 240gr 18bhn .430. I can't remember the powder, probably Unique as I was looking to push a bullet to around 1150 to 1200 which I figured would make for a very pleasant "magnum lite". Subsequent research after my lead load failure directed me to check throat diameters and as it turns out they measure a quite loose .4327

I did find that Penn Bullets offers sizes to .432 wondering if that's enough. Any advice to put me on the right track will be much appreciated.

 

[Walkalong]

Slug the bore and measure the cylinder throats.

 

[Shimitup]

Slug the bore and measure the cylinder throats.

The bore comes in at .4302 and the throats are all uniform at .4327 I did not notice any tightening at all as I went through the barrel thread area. I have heard that some may have constriction from over tightened barrels.

 

[CZ9shooter]

I had nearly the exact same experiance. Same gun, bullet, powder, but I was only running about 1050 fps. I got sick of cleaning up lead and switched to plated bullets. Leading is gone. Accuracy is decent, but could be better. Maybe I just need to tweak the load a bit more.

 

[Riomouse911]

Those slightly oversized bullets should help some.

I’ve been shooting Eggleston coated bullets in my .41 Redhawk (And .357 and .44 guns,too) using powders like Unique, HP-38 and Bullseye with no leading issues so far.

You could order a 100 bullet sample pack from them for under 20 bucks and give them a whirl...

Stay safe!

 

[Blue68f100]

Since the leading is at the start the bullet is not sealing off. Try bumping up the load to generate more pressure. The 18 BH is made for full power loads. The proper bullet size would be the largest that can slip through the throats and not shave. A 12 BH would seal better at the lower pressures you shooting.

 

[Walkalong]

the throats are all uniform at .4327

Then the .432 bullets should be ok assuming they are not too hard and have enough pressure to bump them up in the throats.

 

[blue32]

If you find that those .432 bullets work you may consider contacting the caster for a special run in a lower bhn so you'll be able to run as light a load as you want.

 

[MEHavey]

You are shooting Waaaaaay too hard an alloy.
Go get some soft.30:1 (BHN 8 or so/at most WheelWeights at 10) and it'll be able to immediately seal the grooves through compressive upset.



Bullet makers just luv to sell/advertise your basic Hard`N Nails bullets -- which invariably cause just your kind of problems.



.

 

[.308 Norma]

Bullet makers just luv to sell/advertise your basic Hard`N Nails bullets -- which invariably cause just your kind of problems.

Amen to that, +1, and I'll second that.
Anymore, when I buy commercially cast bullets, the bullets come from companies that don't brag about how hard their bullets are, they never have beveled bases, and they usually have gas checks.

 

[MEHavey]

..... [and] they never have beveled bases...

MEGAdittos.
Sharp/Flat Bases`R Us.

 

[reddog81]

.432 should work better at least. How did you measure .4327? That's awfully specific. There's a good chance the bullets will be slightly larger than .4320.

In my book anything within +\- .0005 is about as good as you can expect with commercial bullets.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Anymore, when I buy commercially cast bullets, the bullets come from companies that don't brag about how hard their bullets are, they never have beveled bases, and they usually have gas checks.

I had the same problem with all my revolvers shooting lead bullets with bevel bases at lower velocities. Never could get them to stop leading until I started casting my own with a flat based mold.

My lead is around a 10 Brinell and since I started using it and bought the flat based mold I have had not enough leading that a barrel brush will send it out the end of the barrel in one pass. Might not even be lead I sending out of there.

A couple cleaning patches with solvent and it's clean. If you are shooting hard cast, bevel based bullets for low to mid velocities loads, like others pointed out, your bullets are to hard. Some people seem to be able to make the hard cast bevel based bullets work at lower velocities according to their posts or at least they say they are, but I never could with any revolver.

With flat based bullets you need a little more flare on your case but they are no big deal to load.

Bevel based bullets in that same hardness of 8 to 12 brinell may also work well but I'm have no reason to find out since I cast my own or buy copper plated flat based.

Wheel weight lead from 8 or alloyed up to 12 seems to work well in all my revolvers for medium loads with little to no leading and I'm not messing with that.

Bullet companies only make bevel based bullets for one reason, they release from the molds in their high speed casting machines a lot easier than flat based bullets do so they are more advantages for production. I don't know why they make them so hard.

I think Missouri bullet used to offer some softer bevel based bullets but I haven't been on there web site for so long I don't know what they make now.

 

[Shimitup]

I appreciate all the great feed back. From what I gather bullet fit is pretty much top priority, and I have no need to shoot anything harder than bhn 12. Is there any reason why I couldn't push the bhn 12 really hard if I wanted to so long as the fit is good? of course it sounds like were I to do that it's going to obturate and fit regardless.

Riomouse, a question for you would be if you know that your cylinder throats are typical Ruger loose? If so it would seem that coated bullets do the trick or I suppose cheat on the fit issue so to speak. If indeed coatings can take the blowby in the throat I'm happy to go that route.

In the mean time I've got a box of MBC 240 gr Keith sized at .430 (they actually run about .4305) that I'm determined not to waste. I machined a bushing at .4323, I was aiming for an even .432 but I over shot a tad. I'm dropping in the bullets and popping them dead center on the base with a transfer punch that also is aligned into the bushing. Great results so far, the bases below the lube groove is coming out of the bushing right at the bushing diameter while the upper band remains at its original size. I'll have a heck of a great mouth tension at the base and likely none above the lube groove.

 

[Walkalong]

I'm dropping in the bullets and popping them dead center on the base with a transfer punch that also is aligned into the bushing.

Very interesting way to try to salvage them. I hope it works.

 

[Shimitup]

How did you measure .4327? That's awfully specific.

I'm a hobby machinist, thus plenty of measuring tools and I'm picky about hitting those 4th decimal tolerances.

 

[SamT1]

You could try crimping the crap out of them. That may build enough pressure to seal them.
But I’m with everyone else on the 12 hardness. You’d want 12 and a gas check to push them hard.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Did you try to load one of those and fit it in your chamber? That oversized base may push the brass out far enough in dia when seating them that it won't chamber in your cylinder. If they do fit, I suppose if you could carefully crimp them so the crimp would hold the nose of the bullet centered.
I know what you trying to do, When I was trying to get my store bought hard cast to stop leading I machined out a cylinder that was over my target size, dropped the bullet in it and took a flat ended punch that fit the base, put it on my anvil and cracked the base with a hammer. It pretty much made them into a short, wide flat nosed bullet of some sort.
I ran them through a sizing die that I machined out and they turned out pretty good for size. They looked a little funky though.
I don't still have one to show you.
My sizing die was a 1" round that I threaded to 7/8x14 and used my rock chucker to push the bullets through it to resize them back to my target dia.
It really wasn't worth the effort but I do still use this die to resize oversized .357 cast bullets so it wasn't a total loss.

 

[Shimitup]

That oversized base may push the brass out far enough in dia when seating them that it won't chamber in your cylinder.

That did cross my mind, I will report on that in the next day or two. My bushing is ugly, a piece of old motor shaft with a keyway in the side. I'm still going to thread it like you have done with the goal of running the bullets up in the Rock Chucker upside down until the base hits the point which will be machined into a floating plunger inside the die which will also serve as an ejector. If it all works out bulk volumes will be a bit less tedious. BTW how did your resized bullets do?

 

[Texas10mm]

I size my cast bullet for the Redhawk at .433 and have no leading at all. My alloy runs a BHN of 10-11. Elmer Keith used 16:1 which has a BHN of 11 for all his work with the hot .44 Spl and later .44 Mag.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

It seems to me they did a lot better, but it was too labor intensive for me and the base of the bullet needed cleaned up from the battering. It did flatten out the bevel, I thought that was what helped.
I think I did 50 of them. The leading problem didn't completely go away but it was drastically reduced. I wasn't loading them to 1200 fps though, probably around 950-1k.
After that experiment I still wasn't happy with the leading outcome so I bought an electric Lee lead pot, a Lee 158gr mold for Alox lube and melted the rest of the hard cast down into ingots and used them to harden up my wheel weight lead I had been saving.

I think I used one ingot of 22 brinell hardcast to 3 ingots of wheel weights for the alloy that I'm still using today but that doesn't help you with what your trying to do.

Your in effect, making tapered bullets and I'll be very curious to hear from you to see how they worked out. I hope your case isn't expanded out far enough that the crimp part of the die can't crimp it. You'll know on the first one you try to load.

Good luck with your experiment and let us know how they worked.
Those bullets your modifying are strange indeed.

 

[Shimitup]

Well, here's this mornings efforts. The bullet has no issues whatsoever with case tension that I think would make Walkalong proud. It crimps great and chambers with .003 to spare with FC brass, I think Winchester will go barely. I took a look at my crude bushing wondering why in the world would I thread that ugly thing with a keyway in the threads. Then I remembered that I had an old 9mm die I haven't used in decades. Dang those things are hard, slow and steady with carbide insert to bore it. It sits at .432 right now, not messing with it any further until I make a trip to the range. If things look promising after that I'll fit the die with a spring loaded plunger to boot out the bullets and an inverted bullet holder for the ram which should make quick work of the task.

 

[Walkalong]

Nice work. I do love me some Redhawk revolvers.

 

[Shimitup]

Nice work. I do love me some Redhawk revolvers.

Thanks Walkalong, IIRCC you have a 5 1/2" you've posted a picture of once upon a time. I love my trusty old 7 1/2" but recently I've had a chance to shoot a 5 1/2" and I have to say I really liked the balance of it minus the extra 2" of barrel.

 

[Walkalong]

Yep.