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Shooting other calibers in a Moisin Nagant?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Patriotme, Dec 10, 2009.

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  1. Patriotme

    Patriotme Member

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    I remember reading several years ago that you could shoot .308 (7.62x51mm) in a 30-06 (7.62x63mm) in a pinch. The author stated that the neck of the .308 cartridge would be straightened out and the accuracy would suck but it would work. Of course a semi-auto would not cycle correctly.
    Assuming this is correct about shooting a .308 in a 30-06 I have to ask if it would be possible to shoot a .308 (7.62x51) in a Moisin-Nagant since it is 7.62x54mm?
    How about shooting the 7.62x54mm in a 30-06 (7.62x63mm)?
    Understand that I have no intent to try this but I'm curious if this would be an option in a SHTF type situation.
     
  2. shaggy430

    shaggy430 Member

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    Uh, no. No way. No how. Also, whatever you read before is wrong also. Don't do it.
     
  3. eight433

    eight433 Member

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    not sure why you would want to. 7.62/54r is one of the cheapest full size rounds out there right now...
     
  4. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    If nothing else (and there is plenty more to consider), the "R" in 7.62x54mmR stands for that big honkin' rim. No way you're going to close the bolt of a gun chambered for the rimless .30-'06 on that rim.

    -Sam
     
  5. Patriotme

    Patriotme Member

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    I wasn't planning on trying any of this but having just finished "The Road" I started thinking about not having the proper caliber of ammo. BTW...great book but depressing as hell.
    I had forgotten about the rim of the 7.62x54mm. I had a Mosin-Nagant about 20 years ago but it's been a while since I've handled these guns or their ammo.
    The .308 in a 30-06 info was actually read in a gun magazine not some forum. I understand that doesn't make it true but I did attach a bit more reliability to the info as it didn't come from some nameless, faceless guy sitting on the internet.
    Thanks for the info and again...I wasn't planning on trying this (I don't have the guns for it anyway) but it seemed like an interesting idea if it were possible.
     
  6. mcdonl

    mcdonl Member

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    And... as far as I know the only other round you can chamber in a 30.06 is a .270, but I could be wrong. I could be... VERY wrong.
     
  7. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Tom Greasham may disagree with me but in my opinion the source in question has even less credibility than some guy posting from his basement in Buffalo wearing nothing but his BVD's.

    I've read so much outright misinformation and opinion padded off as fact in gun rags I no longer read em,
     
  8. shaggy430

    shaggy430 Member

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    A .270, .280, .25-06 would all chamber in the 30-06 because they are all based off of it. HOWEVER, you would never want to fire any ammo in any gun except for the round it is chambered for. The results could be disasterous.
     
  9. jnyork

    jnyork Member

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    Dont even think about it. Please. :eek:
     
  10. ants

    ants Member

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    Me neither.
     
  11. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    The confusion may arise because some Mosins were rechambered to .30'06 by Bannerman back in the first half of the last century when 54R was really hard to come by. These are not considered entirely safe conversions for technical reasons.
     
  12. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Code:
                       .308 Win    .30-06 Spg   7.62 Russian
                       7.62x51mm    7.62.63mm   7.62x54R
       Rim diameter:    .473 in.     .473 in.    .570 in.
       Base diameter:   .470  "      .470  "     .489  "
       Shoulder dia.:   .454  "      .441  "     .458  "
       Case length:    2.015  "     2.494  "    2.050  "
    
    Going by case diameter alone, 7.62 Russian will not fit a .308 or .30-06 chamber.

    .308 is way undersized for the 7.62 Russian chamber. Thankfully the Mosin boltface and extractor for a .570 rim should not hold a .308 in position to fire. If it did fire, the case would have to expand a lot and would likely fail to keep gas from escaping back from the chamber.

    When a .308 is put in a .30-06 chamber, the .308 case base and tapered body are a close fit, BUT not only is the shoulder of the case nearly half-an-inch short of the shoulder of the firing chamber, the case neck does not enter the neck portion of the firing chamber: the unsupported bullet does, and the shoulder of the casing then has to expand the difference between the case length: 12mm or just short of half an inch. To call this courting disaster is a slight understatement. Yes, the Navy had some M1 Garands with chamber inserts to allow shooting the .308, and yes, some of those chamber inserts fell out and shooters noticed it when they looked at the empties and lived to tell about it. .308 in .30-06 is still a no-no.

    And firing a .270 in a .30-06 barrel means a .277" bullet rattling down a barrel with .308 groove and .30 bore diameters, hardly conductive toward velocity or accuracy.
     
  13. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Before you try putting the wrong cartridges in any gun "to see if they'll work", I suggest you practice placing your head between your legs and kissing your ass goodbye.
     
  14. John Wayne

    John Wayne Member

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    You might as well stick a 12 gauge shell in a steel pipe and whack it with a hammer. It'd probably be more accurate, and then when it blows up you've only lost arm, instead of an arm and a $90 rifle.

    There are some guns that can safely chamber multiple cartridges; the Mosin-Nagant (rifle) is not one of them. Nagant revolvers, however, have been modified to shoot .32 ACP, IIRC.
     
  15. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    25-06 in 30-06 = No. Shoulder is further forward.
    .270 in 30-06 = Yes.
    .280 in a 30-06 = No. Shoulder is further forward and the case is too long.

    .308 in 30-06 = No. Although the extractor might hold the case back and allow the firing pin to hit it, you would have grossly excessive headspace and a very unsafe condition.
    If you were down to your last round, and the alternative to your rifle blowing up in your face was worse, it might fire though.

    Here is a list of SAAMI unsafe cartride combinations that will fit, but are unsafe.

    http://www.saami.org/Unsafe_Combinations.cfm

    rc
     
  16. svaz

    svaz Member

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    Der iz udder caliber besides 7.62x54R? :scrutiny:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. John Wayne

    John Wayne Member

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    The SAAMI lists .40 S&W in a 9mm Luger chamber as unsafe to fire, how'd they come up with that one?
     
  18. mcdonl

    mcdonl Member

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    hahaha I guess after my grip attachment post I deserved to get one right :)

    I knew that from experience. A budy of mine forgot his 30.06 ammo, and I et him use my .270 because he said it would work, and I knew I would not be next to him when he fired it :)
     
  19. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Reminds of the gunstore idiot that told me I could substitute .380acp for 9x18mak.
     
  20. Erik M

    Erik M Member

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    My brother bought some surplus 7.62x54r attached to stripper clips at the local pawn shop. when we got to the range he took them off the clip and noticed that they did not have a 'rim'. Put them back in the range bag and did some research later on the web and turns out that the pawn shop is selling 7.62x51 surplus ammo thats mislabeled. He called to ask if they knew it was mislabeled and got the f-bomb dropped on him repetedly for questioning their intelligence.

    Oh I forgot to mention that the clerk said that the reason they were selling the 7.62x51 (.308) in mislabeled containers is that they tested it in a shop gun and it still fired out of a 91/30, so since lots of people have surplus Mosin's they are selling a mislabeled product hoping to turn a profit.
     
  21. Steve Marshall

    Steve Marshall Member

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    I would imagine that a .308 WOULD fire in a CRF rifle in 30-06. And worse, probably a .358. You can always take down that retaining wall in your driveway with a few sticks of dynamite. I wouldn't recommend that either. What possible scenario could anyone imagine this to be a good idea? 25-06, 270 and 30-06 have the same shoulder location.
     
  22. highorder

    highorder Member

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    We need the name of this shop.

    They are going to get someone killed.
     
  23. Brimic

    Brimic Member

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    http://www.reloadbench.com/ganda.html

    [​IMG]

    Firing cases of a different chambering in a rifle is used all the time by reloaders to fire-form brass, but is normally done with reduced charges and cream of wheat filler.

    A .308 will not fire in a 7.62x54r chamber, don't even try it.

    [​IMG]

    The 5th from the left is 7.62x54r and the 7th is .308. Note the difference in rim and body diameters.
     
  24. d2wing

    d2wing Member

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    An NCO once told me that Russians could use our ammo, but we could not use theirs. I would never try it. Once I loaded my rifle in the dark and went hunting. I had a back up rifle in a different caliber. My rifle jammed and would not fire. It turns out I grabbed the wrong box of ammo in the dark. I no longer use weapons with similar ammo.
     
  25. Brimic

    Brimic Member

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    I'm betting that a .223 would almost chamber and fire in an AK- the neck of the case should fit in the lead of the barrel far enough to allow the bolt to close while centering the case enough to get a primer strike. After the first shot, I doubt the rifle is going to do anything though:uhoh:
     
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