Shooting Replica Peacemakers

[rdaines]

I have a couple of revolvers chambered in .357 Mag and feel comfortable with smokeless powder and jacketed bullets. I do handload. I'm in the market for a new handgun and was tempted by a S&W 357PD in .41 Mag but reviews and comments hear have changed my thinking. Another twist took me down the Ruger Blackhawk chambered in .41 Mag and therefor into the SA mindset. So why not consider a Colt SAA replica in .45 Colt you say? Well now we're talking about a black powder round and lead bullets. Sure, you can use smokeless powder and I know about Trail Boss but what kind of problems are associated with non jacketed bullets? I don't really want to get into molds and alloys. So what are the disadvantages associated with shooting these replicas and what extra steps are involved with maintenance and cleaning?

Thanks

 

[mec]

there arn-t many negatives. You can order the 250 grain round nose flat points from meister or oregon trail and several others. I use 7.5 grains of the current alliant Unique for about 850 fps in my 4 3/4" USFA Pre-War. This is about like a standard factory load and a bit hotter than the cas standard. If you do manage to get two charges of this in the case it will fit nicely and blow the gun to smitherenes.
Thats one negative A lot of people use trail boss which lofts higher and wont admit a double charge.

Shooting the saas involves a learning curve. You have to learn just how to place your trigger pull to get a straight back pull. Otherwise, most people shoot low and left. Once you have done that, it's smooth sailing and you can pretty well call your shots. Recoil is mild and painless.

The only other neg. I can thing of right now is that a lot of people want to magnumize their .45 Colts and either shake them loose or blow them up. Otherwise, it's a nice, gentle cartridge that operates at moderate pressures.

 

[rdaines]

Not interersted in making big booms either by choice or by accident. What would be the correct lead bullet diameter for a .45 Colt?

 

[mec]

they generally come in .452 though there are a few in .454" for some of the older and recent Colts. At these moderate pressure levels, the .454s work just fine in the usual .452=452" chambers.

 

[Jim Watson]

The main reason to shoot a Single Action Army in .45 is the balance. The gun was designed in .45 and anything much smaller just makes the gun heavy and sluggish; .357s just weigh a ton. I shoot CAS with .44s and can tell a difference even there.

If you worry about double charging, you can go to things like .45 S&W (Schofield) or even the real rooneyround, the .45 Cowboy Special, which is a cartridge with the case length of a .45 ACP and the rim of a .45 Colt.

 

[shu]

45 colt is an interesting cartridge. got a Ruger NewVaq in 45 colt a while back, On alternate days I regret not getting a heavier framed Ruger so I could max out the cartridge. But on normal days I thrill at the pointability and feel of the lighter weight,

I do fret some over all the void space in the cartridge. Yes, I have some Trail Boss. But something rankles me about paying more for a product to have it pumped full of air (like spreadable butter or squeezably soft bun-wipe). As mentioned, Schofield length cases are one solution.

If you want to get yr ears blown back by max loads, by all means get a Ruger blackhawk or older Vaquero and have at. Or, for fun light shooting get a gun closer to the original SAA weight, some Oregon Trail lasercast, and Unique.

 

[Jim March]

That big case volume isn't wasted at all! It lets you get more work done for a given PSI load. Lower pressure for a given energy bullet is a good thing: easier on the gun, easier on you.

 

[rdaines]

If you want to get yr ears blown back by max loads, by all means get a Ruger blackhawk or older Vaquero and have at.

No, I'm not into abuse but I do want to use the gun for defensive purposes as well as fun. Certainly the .45 Colt has claimed a lot of lives but what would be a good load and bullet for that purpose?

pumped full of air (like spreadable butter or squeezably soft bun-wipe).

Good you explain that in more detail

 

[shu]

The typical 45ACP power load would be a 230 gr jacketed bullet moving at something over 900 fps. The typical 45 Colt power load (at ordinary levels, mind you, not yet speaking of 'Ruger Only" loads) would be a 255 gr cast bullet moving at something over 900 fps. Nothing to be ashamed of for self defense, certainly.

If you want to knock down steel plates at 100 yards, or drop a charging hog, you may need 44mag or maxed-out 45 colt in a heavy frame. But for ordinary social carry purposes, considering over-penetration, follow-up shot time, etc., you could make a case that those were more powerful than optimum.

Frankly, I'd rather carry a 45 colt than a 357mag for self defense. Less recoil, less hearing damage, less problem with over-penetration.

Butter is made spreadable at refrigerator temperatures by whipping it full of air. Check the weight on the tub next time you are in the supermarket. A roll of Charmin butt-wipe is 'squeezably soft' because it is wrapped looser. Check the square feet of tissue on the roll next time you are in the supermarket. (Come to think of it, I believe I'll check the price per pound of puffed oats and rolled oats.) Ice cream is another product often well whipped for easy dipping. A 'pound jar' of Trail Boss holds (iirc) 13.5 ounces.

All of these products tout their light-and-fluffy virtues, and charge a premium for the air they deliver.

How are things in St. Charles? I used to fly T-39's out of Scott AFB.

 

[Sistema1927]

Yes, Trail Boss is a bit more expensive, but those little donuts are amazing. First, you don't have to wonder about charge placement and the flashover that might occur with other powders. Second, it is virtually impossible to double charge them. Third, it burns clean. Fourth, it is consistent, both in metering and in results.

I just loaded up another 200 rounds of .45 Colt this week (5.8 TB under a 200 LRNFP for ~800 fps in my revolvers) and checked my throw at the beginning and the end of the session. No discernible difference in throw weight.

 

[shu]

yes, it does work well. it's such an obvious idea, makes one wonder why it took so long - except possibly the manufacturers dithering over whether or not it would catch on and be marketable enough to pay tooling costs. it does run counter to the general goal which would be toward maximizing the energy density of a propellant.

sure, there are marginally greater manufacturing, shipping and stocking costs for a light and fluffy product - but it still rankles to pay substantially more for it.

hopefully (there being no patent on the atmosphere) it wont be too long before other manufacturers find a similar or alternative solution and the price per unit mass of delivered propellant comes down.

(with apologies for the hijack)
-shu

 

[rdaines]

(with apologies for the hijack)
-shu

No problem, these are great observations and a good dicussion. Here's a question for those who shoot black powder .45 Colts, do the pellets fit into the case (Pyrodex or 777...) and would you use one or two?

 

[Jim K]

It is interesting to see Trail Boss powder being touted as a new invention because it can be loaded by bulk equivalent with black powder.

Except that DuPont made bulk smokeless ("white powder" - it looked a bit like laundry detergent) over a century ago. It was intended primarily for shotguns, to be loaded using the "scoop" measures of the day, but it was perfectly at home in revolver cartridges as well.

Nice to know someone is always around to revive something old and call it new.

Jim

 

[Sistema1927]

Ummm, Trail Boss isn't loaded as "bulk equivalent with black powder".

You don't fill the cartridge case up, and you don't compress the load. You load it the same as any other smokeless propellant, by weight, and not by volume as with "Holy Black". Because TB is shaped like little donuts it better fills the case with small loads and virtually avoids the double charge problem.