Shooting with slight cant

[Blackstone]

When I shoot a pistol one-handed, I will normally cant it slightly, especially off-hand shooting to help bring it in line with my dominant eye. Does canting it (about 15 degrees) affect accuracy at standard pistol ranges? Should I stop canting it altogether, or do others also shoot canted?

 

[Sam1911]

Almost every decent shooting instructor these days advises allowing a bit of cant (generally something less than 45 degrees) when shooting 1-handed.

 

[Sam1911]

Here's a good thread that gets into the question, and links to some videos as well:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=623290

 

[Blackstone]

Haha looks like I started that thread as well

 

[Sam1911]

Yup! What, did you forget?

 

[Blackstone]

I put a lot of that into practice, but when I was at the range last weekend, I realised I sucked at offhand shooting. Because I cant more with my offhand, I was wondering if it was an accuracy issue, and not poor trigger control. I think it's the latter, as I haven't really dry fired with my offhand very much

 

[Sam1911]

Yeah, the cant shouldn't matter much (at all) to accuracy. Dryfire more and make sure your trigger control and follow-through are flawless. If that's the case, you can shoot upside down and you'll still be accurate.

 

[Skribs]

I advocate shooting with a can more than a can't. Putting yourself in the attitude that you can do it will help with practice.

Kidding aside, I do the same when shooting with my weak hand. I believe the term for holding the gun at 45 degrees to shoot cross-eye is the "half homie".

 

[Blackstone]

Kidding aside, I do the same when shooting with my weak hand. I believe the term for holding the gun at 45 degrees to shoot cross-eye is the "half homie".

Ha, I'll have to be careful who I use that term around

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I can't a bit as well. An interesting point. One instructor told me that when he shoots with his weak hand, he only shoots one handed because he is concerned he will cross his thumbs and get a nasty slide bite across the thumb nicking a vein up there that is a good bleeder. Was an interesting point I hadnt considered before.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Because I cant more with my offhand, I was wondering if it was an accuracy issue, and not poor trigger control. I think it's the latter, as I haven't really dry fired with my offhand very much

You leave out a lot of words and it gets confusing...

Canting your gun/sights/hand/wrist doesn't affect the accuracy of the gun...only the shooter. Actually it isn't the cant of the gun that changes how well you are shooting, it is you lack of practice/confidence.

You anticipate not being able to hold as well/steady and snatch at the trigger when the sights look aligned. Just accept that your wobble zone will be larger, see the aligned sights and smoothly press the trigger.

BTW: Unless the person who taught you really didn't know, the reason to cant the gun isn't primarily to bring the sights into alignment with your eye. By canting your hand inward, you are bringing more arm muscles into play to steady the gun.

I can't a bit as well. An interesting point. One instructor told me that when he shoots with his weak hand, he only shoots one handed because he is concerned he will cross his thumbs and get a nasty slide bite across the thumb nicking a vein up there that is a good bleeder. Was an interesting point I hadnt considered before.

I have to say, that is the first time I have heard that one and isn't one I would spend too much time considering. I should say that there are very few reasons, in real life, to shoot weak-handed unless the strong hand is out of commission.

I find it slightly amusing that the apostrophe that belonged in hadn't found a new home in cant

 

[Sam1911]

One instructor told me that when he shoots with his weak hand, he only shoots one handed because he is concerned he will cross his thumbs and get a nasty slide bite across the thumb nicking a vein up there that is a good bleeder. Was an interesting point I hadnt considered before.

Wait...so he was practicing shooting weak-hand, but TWO-HANDED? Like using the weak hand as the dominant hand but then still using the strong hand on the gun?

That really seems to be an exercise which is utterly unnecessary. If you can get two hands on the gun, shoot as you normally shoot. Weak-hand shooting is pretty much just an emergency skill.

(...And yes, if you cross your thumb behind an auto's slide, you'll bleed quite readily. Never mind how I know that... )

 

[larryh1108]

I am a right hand shooter being left eye dominant. I know what the OP is saying. If he is canting the gun to get a better sight picture with his dominant eye and then switches hands (weak hand), his sight picture is now aligned because he is shooting weak side with the dominant eye and does not need to cant the pistol. That's how it sounds, anyway.

 

[Sam1911]

That could be, larry.

There are two issues, though, or two directions, at play in that.

To put it in aircraft terms, you have yaw and roll.

When shooting a handgun cross-dominantly, but two-handed, you should YAW the gun to align the sights with your domiant eye. Roll should be neutral/zero.

When shooting one handed, you roll the gun towards your centerline a few degrees to allow your arm bones and muscles maximum stability and control.

 

[9mmepiphany]

That is a very good description...I've never seen it explained that way

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

When shooting one-handed I do like to cant the hand inward slightly, perhaps ~10°, as it is a more natural movement. If I close my eyes, make a loose fist and thrust my arm out, this is the angle when I open my eyes. A one-hand hold is for close range shooting, where the slight misalignment of the sights makes no difference.

 

[Blackstone]

So you cant the gun because it's a more natural position for your arm?

 

[Sam1911]

Yes, thats largely it. When firing two-handed, your two hands each want to roll inward but they balance each other and provide a stable platform.

Either hand by itself must exert deliberate effort to hold the gun rigidly vertical and that's not optimal.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

So you cant the gun because it's a more natural position for your arm?

Yes, thats largely it. When firing two-handed, your two hands each want to roll inward but they balance each other and provide a stable platform.

Either hand by itself must exert deliberate effort to hold the gun rigidly vertical and that's not optimal.

Exactly. When you shoot two-handed, your support hand helps to hold the gun vertical, and there is less sight misalignment at longer ranges.

 

[Shoot66]

In MHO, a cant will effect the POI. However, at distances up to 25 yards the difference is not important for SD purposes. The difference is smaller for fast („flat“ shooting) projectiles that the slower ones. The same applies when it comes to semi-autos and revolvers, where the height of sights plays a role. The difference will be smaller in the case of the semi-auto.

 

[beatledog7]

Try this little test:

Have a shooter who says a cant is unaccepable for accuracy assume his stance and grip, then use a level to test the gun's vertical. It's gonna be off a few degrees. He'll swear it's perfectly vertical, but it's not.

 

[Blackstone]

Try this little test:

Have a shooter who says a cant is unaccepable for accuracy assume his stance and grip, then use a level to test the gun's vertical. It's gonna be off a few degrees. He'll swear it's perfectly vertical, but it's not.

Is that one-handed or two-handed?

 

[beatledog7]

Doesn't matter.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Doesn't matter.

That is interesting...I've never noticed it before.

I just picked up a pistol on my desk to check and you are correct...using both a one handed and two handed grip...I never paid it much attention before. I think that the interface of the palm/hand to the gripframe not being symmetrical plays a large part

 

[Skribs]

That really seems to be an exercise which is utterly unnecessary. If you can get two hands on the gun, shoot as you normally shoot. Weak-hand shooting is pretty much just an emergency skill.

I disagree. I carry my BUG on my weak-hand side. If I draw THAT gun, and then am able to assume a 2-handed grip, I will be using a weak-hand 2-handed grip.