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Short-barreled muzzleloader need an SBR stamp?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow, Jul 24, 2009.

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  1. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Or not? I could dig a 12" frontstuffer! :D
     
  2. PTK

    PTK Member

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    Nope, not by Federal law. Most states are the same, though some states/counties treat them as firearms.
     
  3. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Last I checked (and that was US ATF guidelines for import to US) muzzleloaders with "traditional" iginition system--No 10 or 11 percussion cap, musket cap, matchlock, wheellock or flintlock--are exempt from NFA restrictions. The export guide did treat in-line and 209 primer fired muzzleloaders as "modern guns" as far as barrel length and overall length.

    You can have a "Confederate Calvary" reproduction shotgun (double barrels under 18 inches) or a Howdah 20ga pistol as a caplock or flintlock without a NFA tax stamp, but not with a "modern" ignition system (in-line or 209 shotgun primer).
     
  4. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Anyone got a link to how various states define the word "firearm"?

    Got two different answers; PTK you're saying the inline vs. percussion doesn't matter right?

    We also have to remember that import restrictions are often different from domestic restrictions.

    Hmmm, any link to a BATF letter / ruling on this subject?

    What about a 20 ga percussion Howdah "SBR" with a buttstock? :)
     
  5. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Perfectly legal if you don't run afoul of state or local laws.

    You would have to do your own research in the state you live in, and I don't know where that is cause you don't say on your sig header.

    rc
     
  6. deadin

    deadin Member

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    Just to add to the above....
    Some places consider a BB gun to be a firearm under local law.

    Read up on your locality!
     
  7. PTK

    PTK Member

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    No; inline counts as a modern gun, oddly - but only when it's cut down.

    As for a 20ga percussion, they're already sold as pistols (though smoothbore and over .50cal), adding a stock wouldn't hurt.
     
  8. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    This one is fuzzy and the laws/interpretations seem to be in conflict. The law says one thing, and ATF says differently, surprise surprise.

    27 CFR 478.11 says:

    So according to that inlines are not "antiques" since they are not a replica of an old design but a modern design.


    But, the ATF has an "NFA Handbook" that says:

    That's from :

    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/chapter2.pdf

    But, in the actual tax code (since NFA is a tax law) it says:

    26 U.S.C. 5845(a), (g):

    So that actual NFA law doesn't exclude modern designs using percussion caps, but the ATF interprets it that way in their NFA handbook.

    As usual, gun laws are stupid, and the ATF should be disbanded :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
  9. Oyeboten

    Oyeboten Member

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    So..under the NFA regulations, a regular, 12 Ga break-open, Hammerless Double-Barrel Shotgun made in or before 1898, can have Barrels shortened to less than 18 inches without need of a Tax Stamp?

    Even though it's Ignition System is identical to modern versions?(Albeit, using Black Powder Shells...)


    Or..?
     
  10. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Doesn't seem so. NFA says it excludes "any firearm not designed or redesigned for using conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition" AND being made before 1898.

    Has to be both, not just one.

    The shotgun you describe would only meet one of the requirements, that of being made before 1898, but it would not meet the other.

    Gun laws are stupid.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
  11. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    Ya don't sayyyyyy....Would this a good first candidate to cut to 10" or 12"?


    http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...arentType=index&parentId=cat601141&id=0054127

    Of course, it'd need a retro-fitted pistol grip and folding stock, too! :eek:



    Or maybe this one in .72 cal, maybe 14":

    http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...-box.jsp.form23&Go.x=0&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

    :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
  12. HKUSP45C

    HKUSP45C Member

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    Where? I am going to have to ask for a cite.

    Holy *&^*&%&%$^&%$^%)*&(*&)_(*)(&^*%&^$^%#&#&^%*( ..... huh ... huh ... huh ... (*&(*&)(*&)(^^%$#%$#%&$&#%^@#^%(*&^(*^!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneoneeleventy

    I should have known, NJ

    My good grief .... what is this poor country coming to? D.C. can define a machine gun any way it wants ... New Jersey can define a firearm anyway it wants ... the socialists want to define "rich" any way they want ...

    Pardon me, I'm feeling a bit ill.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2009
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