I was just curious is barrel length was a factor in the effectiveness of shotshells against snakes and such? Been seeing more than enough rattlesnakes around to feel uncomfortable, but a snubnose Colt agent carries all day long a lot easier than a 4 inch 66 Taurus. Also, has anyone has any experience with shotshells in an autoloader? Was pondering possibly topping off the mag of one of my 9mms with a shot shell or two, followed by defensive loads....
Shot shells in a revolver
- Thread starter Davek1977
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Starter52
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I have always thought that a shorter rifled barrel is better when using shotshells. I would prefer a 2 inch gun when using modern plastic- capsule shotshells, but in truth i haven't patterned any lately.
I havent specifically patterned any to compare, but the 2" guns seem to work quite well for shot loads. I mostly load my own with the Speer capsules in 38 and 44 with No 12 shot and whatever their recommended loads are for Unique, and buy the ones for autos. Be sure you crimp them enough, a friend related that he was shooting a very large rattlesnake in a neighbors yard that was hiding in a cactus and rocks I believe, and one shot capsule creeped forward after the first shot and tied up his gun. Ive never had it happen, I must crimp more.
So far, the handful of 45 auto, both Speer and the old crimped brass Remington loads have functioned fine in a couple 1911 Colts Ive tried them in, and the Speer 9mm shot loads have functioned fine in an older G19. If carrying the glock around, I tend to keep a spare magzine in my pocket loaded with shot loads rather than having one or two at the top of the mag and/or one chambered. If snakes are more of a potential issue, I like 44 shot loads in a Smith revolver. Simply more volume of shot, though the 38s seem to work pretty well.
Keep in mind, none seem to work very well past about 10 feet, 5 feet is much better. The patterns just get a hole in the middle and makes it harder to hit stuff with much shot.
So far, the handful of 45 auto, both Speer and the old crimped brass Remington loads have functioned fine in a couple 1911 Colts Ive tried them in, and the Speer 9mm shot loads have functioned fine in an older G19. If carrying the glock around, I tend to keep a spare magzine in my pocket loaded with shot loads rather than having one or two at the top of the mag and/or one chambered. If snakes are more of a potential issue, I like 44 shot loads in a Smith revolver. Simply more volume of shot, though the 38s seem to work pretty well.
Keep in mind, none seem to work very well past about 10 feet, 5 feet is much better. The patterns just get a hole in the middle and makes it harder to hit stuff with much shot.
.308 Norma
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Tried it once, it worked fine. I topped off a magazine full of 230gr FMJs with a factory (don't remember the brand) shotshell in my 1911. It went bang, cycled the action, and I sent the rest of the FMJs in the magazine downrange. I have no idea what kind of a pattern I got from that shotshell, but if it was anything like what I've seen from 38 and 44 caliber shotshells in revolvers, any forest grouse farther than 15 feet away is relatively safe.
Yes, barrel length is a factor.
Longer barrels tend to produce higher velocities, and that increases the spin rate on exiting the muzzle, which in turn spreads the pattern faster & closer.
I did pattern over 20 guns in various barrel lengths & calibers.
A 2-inch snub .38 Smith was about the best.
Denis
Longer barrels tend to produce higher velocities, and that increases the spin rate on exiting the muzzle, which in turn spreads the pattern faster & closer.
I did pattern over 20 guns in various barrel lengths & calibers.
A 2-inch snub .38 Smith was about the best.
Denis
Alaskan Ironworker
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Try a flamethrower?
Alec
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I patterned CCI #9 .38 shotshells (blue cap) out of a 2” Detective Special and decided they would be effective for snakes within ankle-biting distance. The shot pattern was consistent with no donut shape.
NRA_guy
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I had a Taurus 85T cylinder lock up after firing a round of CCI shot.
Turned out the plastic end of the next (unfired) round had slipped forward a bit and prevented the cylinder from turning.
Then I checked some rounds in the box and found several with loose plastic ends that easily slid forward a few millimeters.
Here is a regular .38, a regular .38 shot shell, and a .38 shot shell with the tip pulled out slightly:
CCI warns about it:
Quote from CCI website regarding center fire shotshells "Cylinder lock up may occur in light weight revolvers due to capsule movement resulting from recoil inertia." http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/pestcontrol_specialty.aspx
Turned out the plastic end of the next (unfired) round had slipped forward a bit and prevented the cylinder from turning.
Then I checked some rounds in the box and found several with loose plastic ends that easily slid forward a few millimeters.
Here is a regular .38, a regular .38 shot shell, and a .38 shot shell with the tip pulled out slightly:
CCI warns about it:
Quote from CCI website regarding center fire shotshells "Cylinder lock up may occur in light weight revolvers due to capsule movement resulting from recoil inertia." http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/pestcontrol_specialty.aspx
RedlegRick
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A long time ago I carried an RG 14 I kept loaded with snake shot. 5-10 feet is it, 3-5 is more realistic when dealing with rattlers. Only used it once and only because I couldn't back away from the critter. Swapped it out later for one of those pawnshop special .38 derringers that had the same limitations, only more shot load. Three to five feet and of you can avoid snakes, do it instead of ventilating them.
mcb
Member
This on one of the very few application where a Judge or Governor revolver is actually pretty good. That said I never had much issue hitting a snake at spitting distance with regular bullets.
I have used shot shells quite effectively with snakes over the years. .38spl and .44mag have always did the trick for me. I used a 4 inch S&W model 19 and a Virginian Dragoon with these shells and they worked well. One year I killed 17 snakes around mine and my mother-in-laws place. All copperheads except for one four foot rattlesnake that got a little too close to me on my garden tractor, he was crawling towards me at a very close distance and a 125 JHP took his head off and one black snake which kept hanging around my MIL's swimming pool pump. She saw him, screamed each time and ran and called me, he had to go to a better place. I started putting lime around the yard edges each year in spring or every other year and my snake issues slithered away.
Carl N. Brown
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Shotshells in revolver
My carry revolver when visiting the old family homeplace on the mountain has one shotshell first in line to fire, followed by bulleted rounds. There are copperheads and rattlesnakes. I do diligently practice snake avoidance because (a) I do not want to have to fire a gun at snake-strike range, (b) the wildlife resource agency frowns on deliberately hunting snakes in the wild, and (c) snakes help control the rodent population.
I have loaded shotshells for revolver using Speer shot capsules in .38 Special, .45 AutoRim. I have observed capsule creep if firing more than one in a cylinder. Super crimping the casings can weaken the plastic capsules.
In .38 I have used shotshells from 2" and 4" barreled revolvers for some comparison. The patterns were uniform but thinned out rapidly at distance. When shooting at paper, I have not observed donut patterns. I would cite 5 paces as maximum practical range with my guns and the ammo I have tested.
From autoloaders
I have used CCI .45 ACP shotshells in a 1911A1 clone and they did function semi-automatically as advertised.
I have fired CCI .22 LR shotshells (the long Stinger case with a plastic shot capsule) in a Ruger Mark II and the empties did not eject. The gun would work as a manual repeater with shotshells. Ruger does not recommend use of shotshells in their semi-auto .22 pistols, and I suspect the old fashioned .22 shotshell with crimped brass case as long as a .22 LR cartridge would be an extraction and ejection problem in any .22 semi-auto pistol. The crimped .22 LR shotshell fired casing unfolds to almost the length of a .22 Magnum fired casing.
My carry revolver when visiting the old family homeplace on the mountain has one shotshell first in line to fire, followed by bulleted rounds. There are copperheads and rattlesnakes. I do diligently practice snake avoidance because (a) I do not want to have to fire a gun at snake-strike range, (b) the wildlife resource agency frowns on deliberately hunting snakes in the wild, and (c) snakes help control the rodent population.
I have loaded shotshells for revolver using Speer shot capsules in .38 Special, .45 AutoRim. I have observed capsule creep if firing more than one in a cylinder. Super crimping the casings can weaken the plastic capsules.
In .38 I have used shotshells from 2" and 4" barreled revolvers for some comparison. The patterns were uniform but thinned out rapidly at distance. When shooting at paper, I have not observed donut patterns. I would cite 5 paces as maximum practical range with my guns and the ammo I have tested.
From autoloaders
I have used CCI .45 ACP shotshells in a 1911A1 clone and they did function semi-automatically as advertised.
I have fired CCI .22 LR shotshells (the long Stinger case with a plastic shot capsule) in a Ruger Mark II and the empties did not eject. The gun would work as a manual repeater with shotshells. Ruger does not recommend use of shotshells in their semi-auto .22 pistols, and I suspect the old fashioned .22 shotshell with crimped brass case as long as a .22 LR cartridge would be an extraction and ejection problem in any .22 semi-auto pistol. The crimped .22 LR shotshell fired casing unfolds to almost the length of a .22 Magnum fired casing.
Around our home, with pets and children present, backing away isn't the preferred technique. Having had one in the garage and directly outside of the garage door, under a bench where my father drinks coffee in every morning and our pets eat, a more permanent solution is required. Rattlesnakes get killed with lariats, hoes, chains, etc...they're going to doie regardless, I just see a gun as the quicker, more effective route of doing so.
Cocked & Locked
Member
They work for me. I roll my own .38 special and .44 special ones using Speer shot cups and 7 1/2 shot.
chicken house rats
pump house copperhead
treestand timber rattler (on the path)
chicken house rats
pump house copperhead
treestand timber rattler (on the path)
gbw
Member
I use 9mm shotshells in a KelTec PF9, carried around the place IWB via KT belt clip, this is the lightest, easiest carrying setup I could come up with. Inexpensive as well.
First 2 are shotshells. Work fine on snakes, venomous, where kids are likely, out to 10-12’. Use the original #9 shot. I tried the new #4 shells, they were terrible. (I wish .380 was possible).
First 2 are shotshells. Work fine on snakes, venomous, where kids are likely, out to 10-12’. Use the original #9 shot. I tried the new #4 shells, they were terrible. (I wish .380 was possible).
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35 Whelen
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3" Rossi 68 with home-rolled CCI capsules and #9 shot. Worked many times for me, but then again so has a 4" .357. The key is to get close, 5' - 6' is plenty safe and plenty close.
35W
35W
Nice work. Do you find the factory shotshells almost as effective?
35 Whelen
Member
I've never fired factory .38 shotshells, but I bet they'd be just as good.
Kaeto
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I loaded a batch of shot shells in .38 spcl for my dad to use in his 4" barreled .357 mag. He has never used them because he went and bought a .410 'Snake Charmer'
Steve51
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I have used the CCI shotshells in revolvers with satisfactory results. I now buy the Speer shot capsules and make my own .38 and .44 shells using #8 shot. My LCRx .38+P with a 1.87" barrel actually seems to shoot them with the best effect.
many years ago while walking down the street , I had to fire a shot shell from .357 to a stray dog that was terrorizing our neighborhood . It did try to attack few pedestrians and it actually did bite my friend who was riding a bicycle. Since this was urban area, I did put a shot shell as a first one in the cylinder. When dog tried to assault me that night, I fired from less than 10 feet away, and seems to me that dog ran away scared by the blast without any injures.I heard that someone killed it later with a "real" bullet.
I was pretty unimpressed with the effect (or the lack of) .
I was pretty unimpressed with the effect (or the lack of) .
FROGO207
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From my experience the longer the rifled barrel the more of a wide spray the shot exits the muzzle. I believe it is because of the lead being deformed more as it travels up the barrel than in a shorter barrel. I have custom made my own shot shells using brass and wads and overshot cards punched out of thin card board. They seem to work as well as the shot capsules you can buy FWIW.
fordtrucks
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how far were the rats when shot?
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