Shot shells in a revolver

[DPris]

It's velocity, not pellet deformation.

A longer barrel typically equates to higher velocities.
I got the worst spreads from the rifles I tested shot shells in.

Using the same .38 load, for instance, at the same distances, and shooting it from a snub Smith to a four-inch Smith revolver to a Marlin 20-inch levergun, it was possible to see the rate of pattern spread grow with each barrel length and increase in velocity.

This was consistent across other calibers and barrel lengths.

Rifling twist has SOME effect; if one revolver has a faster twist than a comparable revolver in another brand, the revolver with the slower twist will shoot a tighter pattern at the same distance.
Denis

 

[dodo bird]

I've never fired factory .38 shotshells, but I bet they'd be just as good.

I always thought 4 or 5 of them would be good in a survival pack. Shooting a small bird with one would be better than a 44 slug.

 

[35 Whelen]

I always thought 4 or 5 of them would be good in a survival pack. Shooting a small bird with one would be better than a 44 slug.

I'm afraid a fella would have to be very close to a bird to have any hope of hitting it with a shot load.

A few years ago I couldn't find any capsules for my 45 Colt so I made up some shells that consisted of a light charge of Red Dot, a plastic over-powder disc, #9 shot and a .451" lead ball seated on top. I tried them out to 20' and was really surprised at how well they shot. The ball hit just a little low, but not bad at all:





I always carry a couple of low velocity (775 +/- fps)round nose loads in my cartridge loops and got to try one out a couple of years ago. I walk up on a covey of blue quail in SW Texas and popped one from about 20 yds. away with my .44 Special. There's was very little damage and as can bee seen in the pic, you can't even tell where the bullet entered:



35W

 

[Walkalong]

I used Speer shotshells as well as my own home made ones in a 3" Charter Arms .44 Spl years ago when I did a lot of creek wading and swamp stomping. They worked great in the 3 to 5 yard range. Much farther and the spread was too large to reliable kill snakes DRT. I never tried them in another barrel length.

 

[kBob]

Many moons go a bud went ga-ga over the shot capsules. He shot them mostly from a 5 inch S&W27. He loaded mostly #9s because "someone" had acciedentally bought a box of .410 shells in that size and he salvaged the shot for his pistol project.

Using cardboard laid on the ground the donut effect was quickly observed.

Being curious about the shot should he need to shoot at a two legged snake in a hurry and that being first up he took a shot at the bare target backing we used at the 3 yard line. Our stands "permanent" backing was that old pressed peg board stuff many of us old farts have in our shop. This is wood fiber glued back together in a thin sheet with regularly placed holes for sticking metal hooks in to hang our tools and such from. It is easily broken or punched through. The shiny side was towards us and his first shot resulted in us each receiving multiple small blue freckles. Man that shot bouncing back from that peg board tingled!

OK we learned not to shoot at armored snakes and not to have faith in it for self defense against larger beings. Also wearing eye protection IS a GOOD thing.

Buddy found this lack of faith disturbing.

His next outing he had prepared a number of .357 "Duplex" loads, in this case he had a piece of 00 buck shot in each capsule and as many #9s as he could work in there around it. He planned to get the best of both worlds with this load.

As it happened the 00Buck pellet took up a fair amount of room and greatly reduced the effect of the shot and the 00 shot being loose in the capsule went where ever it pleased, generally striking an 20x20 target backer someplace at 7 yards but with no regularity.

Actually his biggest shot in a handgun success went to hand loading .45 Colt using a gas check as over powder, a load of shot and then crimping a reversed gas check over the shot and crimping it well. #9 gave the densest pattern but he liked #7 1/2for its heavier pellet weight.

I have done .38 special using heavy card stock "wads" with two on top of the powder and one on top of the shot and a heavy crimp and with a disc of milk carton on the top. Not as good as commercial load or shot caps as they do not hold as much shot, and they do lead the barrel a bit like old crimped .22 rat shot, but they are cheap except for time to make.

Also done card stock and shot in a .44 BP revolver.....just do one chamber and shoot it first as recoil can open any not up shot chambers!

Fun stuff anyway.

-kBob

 

[jmorris]

I have played with shot rounds a bit over the years .22lr & mag were all but useless.

I make them from .223 brass for .380 pistols and they cycle the action, 45 ACP using 308 family brass, they too cycle the action and have the best patterns because I use .410 wads. Even made some extra long ones for a 45 ACP revolver. Also have used the Speer capsules #12 shot is what I use most often.

Step by step of the 45 ACP shotshell.


.380, Remington 45 ACP, homemade 45 acp, 22 mag, 38 spl, 45LC, 625 Load, .410

 

[kBob]

jmorris,

So I am guessing you are running the front of the cut down .308 case into a .44 special or mag die to get that bottle neck effect?

.32 ACP die for the nose of the .380?

These loads look "Nonte-ish" to me.

As the owner of a M1917 and Ruger Pervertable .45 those "625" loads look VERY interesting to me. I suppose the length to bottle neck would be a lot less critical on the moon clip guns though.

Wonder if one might make up 9x19mm like your .380s from .223?

Thanks for posting your pictures and telling us about these projects. Good on ya!

-kBob

 

[mcb]

Tell me more about those long shot shell for the 625. Those look interesting, how do you form the 308 case. Just run it in a 45 crimp die?

 

[35 Whelen]

RCBS used to, and may still, make a die for reforming .308 brass into 45 ACP brass. Somewhere around here I have a couple of magazines from the early '80's in which an article details how to make shot loads out of .308 brass.

35W

 

[jmorris]

I came across these dimensions.



And machined an old die I had to them internally. I deviated a bit and made two different threaded inserts one of which pushes down the over shot card at the same time it crimps it in place. The extra long ones are just cases cut longer.



I got smarter on the 380 die and just machined an insert that would drop into an extra Lee powder die I had sitting in the drawer.

 

[Walkalong]

I tried some two diameter shot shells in .44 Spl to use the whole cylinder, but if I got the pressure two high they would back out and tie the gun up. Ended up just using .44 Spl cases with a hard plastic disc over the wad/shot that I roll crimped around to hold in place. Very effective against snakes up close out of the 3" Bulldog.

 

[Penoe Hunter]

Since I posted this I bought a defender no more shot shells! : https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/real-world-shot-load-perfomance.757515/

 

[Crowman]

I’ve killed a number of poisonous snakes around the house with CCI-Speer shotshells out of Short Barrel revolvers. I use .22 WMR, .38 Spl, .44 Spl and .45 Colt shotshells, depending on what I’m carrying. I normally carry a S&W 351C in my PJ’s when I go out to feed the yard cats with a CCI shot shell indexed. Normally I tote a S&W 640 PC Pro Series or Colt 2017 Cobra with shot shell indexed up in spring and summer, and a Charter Bulldog 44 in fall and winter. All are effective out of Short Barrel guns ...1-7/8” - 3” barrels. Only takes one shot in the head. The 22 WMR is very effective.

 

[farm23]

The CA Bulldog is a good all around choice. But I carry a NAA Black Widow loaded with 2 shot shell up front. They aren't so much for snakes but for 2 Great Danes that want to gang up on my bird dog.

 

[ThomasT]

My bud and I have a couple of Ruger 32 mag single six revolvers with 5.5" barrels and I have been making shot shells for many years with #12 shot and .308 gas checks. They work pretty darn well too. I think they pattern a little better because there is no plastic shot capsule to be spun by the rifling. The first box of 50 I loaded he wanted me to leave with him. He has 40 acres in Weatherford Tx and has many snakes.

About 9 months later he gave me back my box of empty brass and said he had used it all to kill snakes, mostly copperheads, and only two or three got shot twice. He carries that gun all the time and is scared to death of snakes. And Tarantulas. Don't throw one on him. Trust me, I have been there.

I have always wanted to find an old beater 38 special with a 6" barrel and ream the cylinder to hold 357 Maximum brass loaded with shot. Hopefully the rifling will be almost none existent, especially after I removed all the old lead fouling from the barrel and I think that would be a great snake gun.

Once I bought a Taurus Tracker in 44 mag thinking it would be a good snake gun but Taurus says not to shoot snake loads in them because of the barrel porting. I never tried it. Has anyone shot a snake load from one of these guns?

And for those of you who are using the Speer 38 shot capsules did you know they will also hold 3 .30 caliber #1 buck pellets? I have loaded and shot many of those with no problems. They might be a decent SD load because of the low recoil. Just a thought.

 

[Monster Zero]

I was just curious is barrel length was a factor in the effectiveness of shotshells against snakes and such? Been seeing more than enough rattlesnakes around to feel uncomfortable, but a snubnose Colt agent carries all day long a lot easier than a 4 inch 66 Taurus. Also, has anyone has any experience with shotshells in an autoloader? Was pondering possibly topping off the mag of one of my 9mms with a shot shell or two, followed by defensive loads....

If one should find a used Bulldog at a good price, how would one mechanically remove the rifling from the barrel and make it a dedicated smoothbore for shooting shot loads only? (Assuming it's legal to do this... I believe it is but if someone has information otherwise please say so...)

 

[luger fan]

Just saw a test on YouTube on the new CCI shotshell, #4 shot. They used a Henry rifle, a 6" Ruger, and a 2" COP 4 shot. In ALL THE TESTS the 2" COP outperformed in accuracy and penetration both the two bigger test weapons. Go figure!

 

[Tallball]

I've shot a few snakes in my time. I have kids and pets; if there is a copperhead in my backyard, I will kill it. Also, when fishing or just messing around, I have encountered a few cottonmouths that were aggressive. Other than that, I prefer to just leave them alone whenever possible.

As a teenager, I found 22 shot shells to be somewhat lacking. Just one of them wouldn't necessarily put a snake down humanely.

I've used 38 store-bought shot shells a few times. From a five or so feet away they did the job quite well.

The most effective was a 12-gauge shotgun. A cottonmouth decided to make a beeline straight at me while I was hunting by the family pond. That did not end well for him.

When we had copperheads in the backyard I left a 410 shotgun loaded with... I think it was #7... handy near the backdoor. My Judge would have been just as effective, no doubt, but I figured my wife (not a gun person) was much less likely to shoot herself in the foot with the longer barrel.

 

[DPris]

It is not legal to remove the rifling & create a smoothbore handgun, without going through the appropriate federal process.
Denis

 

[Gordon]

I have an old three screw 9 1/2 " Ruger Single six .22 with the extra magnum cylinder. It is worn enough to not be collector grade and I have no intention of selling it in future. My son did what I told him and set it up it in a lathe and ran a 9mm drill bit in the muzzle about three inches slowly and carefully and actually 30 degree crowned the rifling internally where it ended and the now smooth bore muzzle. I use this home made Rutledge bored gun for rats and squirells and gophers right outside around home and the decks ect. I knew it would work well because a own an Anshutz which has a choked .22 LR Rutledge bore, and I did this to an old Winchester 275 .22 magnum pump gun which another son son had to have seeing its effects on rodents and still accurately shooting regular bulleted ammo. The Ruger .22mag also shoots bullets as well or better than it ever shot them The gun is very handy for me to carry while weed whacking or blowing off the decks ect. What happens is the 6"+ rifled barrel slings the shot out after it leaves the rifling and hits the smooth bore section which stops the centrifugal spread of shot and acts as a choke . The old Thompson center external Contender chokes worked the same way, with .44 Hot Shot loads.
Anyway this pistol so loaded is good to about 30 feet with 12-14" patterns of the #11 shot . It is also not that loud, much less noise than a Charter Bulldog with the CCI snake load and seemingly longer ranged !

 

[Crowman]

Back a few years ago, I wanted 45 ACP shot shells for my 2-1/2” barrel Model 25. I used Auto Rim cases and Speer 45 Colt shot capsules and #9 shot borrowing on the Colt data and taper crimping the capsule in the case so as not to crush the plastic. Worked like a charm. Effective at 10 feet or so, just like the commercial 45 Colt loads. They are long, but chamber and fire just fine. Don’t have any load data handy, all in my reloading journal out in my shed. Too late, too many beers to go rummaging... gotta sample some 12 year old Glenfiddich after dinner.



This is one of my shot shells next to a 255 grain Laser Cast SWC “Bowling Pin” load for comparison.

 

[Kaeto]

I'd like to load up some shot shells for my .455 Enfield Mk VI.