Shotgun states - Why?

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Fredericianer

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I've heard that in some US states the use of rifles for deer hunting is forbidden, and that shotguns must be used instead. As an outsider, I have a few questions on the subject.

Is there a sensible reason for the ban on the use of rifles?

Surely the rifle is the ideal tool for the job, and the one most likely to give a quick clean kill, where the deer do not suffer unnecessarily?

Which states have this policy?

Are rifles still available in these states (for target practice, or for use in other states)?

Are bows/muzzleloaders permitted for deer hunting in these states as well as shotguns?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Fredericianer
 
It's all about population density, my friend, with a bit of politics thrown in. Rifles are legal at present in Orange County, New York, but as our population grows I anticipate that it will change to shotgun-only in the next decade. A few years ago a toddler was shot in the neck while at home, the result of a careless hunter with a .300 rifle. New Jersey has been shotgun-only for many years, though some areas are as rural as New York.
 
In most of America hunting is allowed right up to the city limits and in some cases limited hunting within city limits.
Many eastern states, especially those that are heavily populated mandate the use of shotguns, straightwall pistol calibers and muzzle loaders to reduce the range and trajectory of projectiles released during their big game seasons.
Some states have different zones in which different weapons are allowed for big game.
Much of these restricted areas are as flat as a table and have checker board roads every mile so the difference in a 12ga. slug and a 7mm mag is significant.
Kind of a condensed version of a big issue but hope it helps.
 
In the state of Iowa, we have different seasons for bow, muzzleloader and shotgun for deer. Rifles are legal for deer in only portions of the state. A 12 or 20 gauge slug is plenty of load for humane kills. Rifles are legal to own and shoot at many other targets, just not deer.

IMO, we are limited to shotgun for several reasons here.

The first is population distribution. In most parts of Iowa, there is at least one (often more) farmsteads every mile. With a negligent rifle shot, there are potentially more undesirable backstops due to the flatter rifle trajectory than a shotgun slug.

The second is historic hunting strategy. Shotgun season tactic is/has been predominately party hunting with post and push. One line of hunters (push) advances toward a waiting line of hunters from the same party (post). Similar to above, this strategy presents many undesirable backstops.

Someone will be along shortly to give you the fact instead of my opinion.
 
As said, it depends on the area. Rifles are legal in virtually all of Georgia, but some more heavily populated areas on the fringes of Atlanta are archery only.

There are also a few areas where rifles are allowed, but hunters are required to hunt from elevated stands so all shots are at a downward angle and the bullet will go into the ground instead of traveling long distances.
 
The compromise of not allowing rifles in some areas has probably preserved the hunting opportunity on literally millions of square miles of land in America. I'm not sure how much land is available to hunt in Denmark but here the majority of land can be hunted.
 
A slug from a shotgun or a minie ball from a muzzleloader will kill a deer just as dead just as fast as a bullet from a modern rifle. The range is, however, limited, which may or may not be a problem. In the deep woods, it's not normally a problem.

These laws have given rise so some weird shotgun technology, like hour glass shaped slugs in plastic sabots fired through rifled shotgun barrels. I've killed only one deer in my life with a shotgun, a target of opportunity last year while I was trying to sneak up on a pond that has ducks regularly and found myself looking at a decent 8 point instead. I shot him at 35 yards with a 20 gauge 3 buck load and he folded where he stood, 3 pellets having hit his head, one dead center brain shot.

So, you know, even though Texas is a rifle state, shotguns can be used in the dense woods effectively and a muzzle loader is all I'd ever need. Most I can see in my shooting lanes from my box blind is 100 yards, within easy range of my CVA Wolf firing a 385 grain Hornady Great Plains bullet at around 1800 fps with 777, a black powder substitute propellent.

I've killed most of the deer I've ever shot with rifles, of course, but I have hunted wide open deserts and mountain country as well as Texas hill country in the past. My place has dense woods on it where I'm hunting now, so the modern rifles are stored and rarely come out to play here. If I think I need range, I have the hardware if needed.
 
Denmark has a population density of 333 persons per square mile (according to this website I found: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934666.html). Much of the country is quite rural, but even in the most sparsely populated areas, you never seem to be more than a few hundred metres of a house.

Hunting is quite a popular pastime here, and while there are no public areas where you can legally hunt (except coastal waterfowling), a lot of the available land is let to hunting syndicates or individual hunters. I have a small hunting lease on farmland together with one of my buddies, though we're looking for somewhere with a bit of woodland too.

On our lease, within a mile or two of any given spot there are houses in practically every direction. As such a safe backstop is essential for rifle shooting, but can be difficult to achieve as much of the land is pretty flat. We have two options if the land doesn't offer a safe backstop. Don't shoot, or get up in a high seat to give yourself a safer downwards angled shot.

We do use shotguns for deer here too during our autumn/winter season, but only for roe deer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_deer), and only for shots at a maximum of 20 metres range. As much of the hunting during the season is driven hunting, this isn't usually a problem. There are probably more deer shot with shotguns than rifles here. Slugs are banned though unfortunately (unless you have a rifled barrelled shotgun), as is buckshot, so the biggest shot size we can use is no.1 (steel or other non-toxic as lead shot is banned).

Are all species of deer allowed to be taken with shotguns in the areas where rifles may not be used?
 
As others have said, it has to do with type of terrain and safety. While rifles are legal where I hunt in Wisconsin, there are many places where I prefer to use handgun caliber carbines because their range is similar to shotguns with slugs. This is because there is a farm or other residence, along with domestic livestock dotted all over the countryside, with little terrain deviation or dense woods to stop a bullet.
 
"Are all species of deer allowed to be taken with shotguns in the areas where rifles may not be used?"

In those states, the whitetail deer is the only species there is. In the western states where any firearm is allowed, we have the whitetail and a couple of sub-species--as well as the mule deer (with a couple of variants).
 
Until this year, one couldn't use a rifle for deer during gun seaseon except for a muzzle loading rifle. Now one will be able to use a limited number of rifles chambered for certain specified straight walled cartridges including 45-70, 444 Marlin, 357 Maximum, 45 Colt, 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 44 Remington Magnum, 45 Auto and some others that I don't rember. One will be allowed a maximum of 3 cartridges loaded in the aformentioned guns even though their magazinemay hold more.

The funny thing is that one may hunt with any handgun with a barrel at least 5 inches long chambered for a cartridges with a bore diameter of .357 inches or greater. So, I can use a 44 Magnum revolver loaded with 6 cartridges but if I'm using a rifle I can only load it with 3 cartridges.

Also ANY rifle may be used for hunting groundhogs, hogs, coyotes, etc. and any legal weapon (read any rifle) may be used if you have a nuisance deer permit.

I've killed one deer in Ohio with a cross bow and one with a revolver. All the others were taken with nuisance permits with rifles such as in 204 Ruger, 222 Remington, 22-250 Remington, 30/06, 270 Winchester, 300 Win. Mag., etc.
 
Just to add to a great thread, you will notice with a little bit of research that the highest scoring whitetail bucks in America are being taken in shotgun/muzzleloader/pistol caliber carbine/straight wall case areas.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
The answer is just plain ignorance, at least in IL. We have high population density. We allow slugs or saboted slugs only. Or, ML rifles shooting saboted bullets of 44 cal or bigger, with any kind of black or "substitute" black powder. (Includes bolt action and inlines). Handguns: single shot or revolvers, some of which equal or exceed 30-30 and larger calibers(any length straight wall case, I.e. 460, 500, 45-70). But no little 30-30 carbine or carbine/rifles in pistol calibers. Same group who did nothing to reduce kills after last year's devastating losses from cwd, blue tongue, and ehd.
Shake your head and wonder about game departments staffed with political appointees.
Darn, I hate auto correct.
 
In Minnesota, the Southern roughly 1/3 of the state is shotgun zone. The land is fairly flat and is mostly farmland. The Eastern part of that zone is fairly heavily populated. In the Northern zone any centerfire rifle is allowed. The Northern zone is mostly wooded and is much less populated. Party hunting is much more popular in the South. A quick look at the record books, most record book deer are not shot in shotgun zones. But they are catching up. I have hunted both zones for many years. A centerfire rifle is far more effective regardless of range. Pistols .357 and up are allowed in both zones, as are muzzle loaders. There is also a separate muzzleloader season.
Shotguns not only are safer due to less range, the deer have far less cover in farmland. So it is for safety conservation and sportsmanship that they are used.
 
LeonCarr, the farther north you go, the larger the "natural" size of critters. That holds for deer, coyotes, cougars, black bear, whatever. And farming-country whitetails tend to be among the larger averages.
 
Illinois has been a slug-hunting only state for the long, long time.

Illinois had no "big game" seasons until 1957. Deer we considered nearly extinct when my grandfather was a kid in the 1920-30's. He and my father used to tell me it was big news when one was sighted. Hard to believe today with deer everywhere. Anyways when the original modern seasons were established 1 there weren't very many deer so harvests needed to be modest, 2 popular theory at the time that a pumpkin ball slug traveled less distance and therefore was safer than rifle bullets, and 3 shotguns were already the commonly owned firearm most farmers and sportsmen used for small game. Sadly there was also political pressure not to make rifles "socially acceptable" (the whole weapons of war thing).

Regardless, the rules stuck and nobody much cared when I started hunting here in the 1980's. There were plenty of rifle shooters at the clubs, but for the most part a 12 gauge pump with two barrels and maybe a 22LR rifle were the standard hunting rigs for everyone I encountered for everything from squirrels and rabbits, pheasants and ducks, up to deer.

The explosive growth in the deer herd and greater interest in deer hunting over the past twenty years has driven a lot of innovations with new slug designs, rifled barrels, and scoped receivers making them effective 125 yard big bores. Frankly without the rifle restrictions there would be no sabot shotgun slugs, no rifled shotgun barrels, and most likely no inline muzzeloaders. These were all technologies developed specifically to give centerfire-like options to people stuck in slug zones.

For about 35 years the choices were simply archery (long season, low success) or shotgun (very short 3 day season, good success). However in the past twenty years as the deer herd surpassed 750,000 animals Illinois greatly expanded the seasons to add more tags, more days afield, and additional weapons. Muzzeloaders, inlines, larger caliber handguns and crossbows were legalized and are very popular.

Other states around us that were traditionally also restricted to shotguns have similarly expanded weapon choices. A few have recently included rifles chambered in the same 35 caliber and larger straightwall cartridges already approved for handgun seasons. Those rifles have been flying off the shelves where they have been allowed as fall hunting season approaches. Heck I would trade a slug gun or inline for a lever action 45-70 or 44 magnum any day!

If the other shotgun states fall in line with these changes, I can easily foresee shotgun slugs and inline muzzleloaders getting swept away. Anywhere rifles of any flavor are allowed other weapon types become a quaint annomoly. Frankly all of my hunting friends are looking forward to it.

For a quick history on Illinois deer hunting, check this: http://web.extension.illinois.edu/deer/historyofmanagment.cfm
 
In Pennsylvania it goes by county I believe. Where I live & hunt rifles are ok. However if you were to head south towards the more densely populated areas (Buck Co, Delaware Co) it is shotgun only. Years back there was talk of using I-78 as the dividing line. South of I-78 was shotgun only and north of I-78 rifle was ok. I'm not sure if this was gun store gossip or if there was any truth to it.
 
Yeah Art I remember in the mid 1980s when I started deer hunting all people ever talked about for hunting big bucks was South Texas. No longer the case. The Midwest is where its at now.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
d2wing said:
In Minnesota, the Southern roughly 1/3 of the state is shotgun zone. The land is fairly flat and is mostly farmland. The Eastern part of that zone is fairly heavily populated. In the Northern zone any centerfire rifle is allowed. The Northern zone is mostly wooded and is much less populated.

Pretty much the same in Michigan.
 
A lot of the backstop issues with centerfire rifles can be fixed with people hunting out of elevated stands. I guess some of those shotgun only states' game departnments didn't think about that VS making people hunt with a shotgun. I'd honestly rather hunt with a muzzleloader than a shotgun if I was limited to those two choices. You can get really good accuracy out of the new inline muzzleloaders. You would really be set up if you could hunt with a smokeless muzzleloader in one of those shotgun only areas. I'm glad I can hunt with a centerfire rifle during modern gun season.
 
its not as easy as you would think

concept: create a shotgun zone so that everybody can be forced to hunt with what is TRADITIONALLY a short range weapon, in the hopes that if "uncle freddy" takes a shot, the projectile wont have the physically ability to go 1 mile down through the pasture and hit trespasser Susy like can happen if uncle freddie used his .308 and not a 20 inch smooth bore shotgun.

Realities:
MOST shotgun zones allow handguns and muzzle loaders. IN michigan they started the creation of MIXED rifle/shotgun zones where center fire rifles in specific handgun calibers, namely .357 44 special 44 mag and 45 colt/454 casull, are the legal option to the use of a rifled shotgun or a muzzle loader with a massive range.

Modern shotgun ammo is almost as good as the average 30-30 in range. and beats the effective range of a 44 magnum in a rifle. Sorry it just is redundant to prohibit a genuine rifle like the 30-30 when i can buy a shotgun that will give me the same range and energy figures out to 100 yards.
And i can buy and legally use the smokeless powder muzzle loaders and duplicate the ballistics of a 7.62 nato with a nice little 150 grain bullet. redundant i say.
 
Shotgun zones are ridiculous because the vast majority of hunting accidents are due to negligent discharges at close range or an idiot shooting at an unidentified "target". Every season I hear a few shots way before shooting light. Presumably this is bubba still half drunk letting the hammer slip on a loaded chamber of a 3030.

HB
 
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