larryh1108
Member
It's amazing that so many people don't understand that a felon gives up his gun rights when he chooses to commit a felony. He gives them up, they aren't taken from them. His choice.
Should ALL Felons Regain Their Gun Rights Upon Completion of Sentence/Parole?
- Thread starter Red Wind
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It's amazing that so many people don't understand that a felon gives up his gun rights when he chooses to commit a felony. He gives them up, they aren't taken from them. His choice.
Yes.
It is scary that you seem to think people only commit felonies knowingly and intentionally.
If it were possible to know, I would wager real money you have committed felonies, whether you know it or not.
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larryh1108
Member
I have stated previously, many times, that non-violent felons should be able to petition to get their rights back.
That being said, I continually see blanket statements on both sides about what makes a felon a felon where states even can't keep it straight. However, I believe that most felonies are done with calculated foresight and they just don't give a crap. So you know what? If they don't care, I don't care if they never get their rights back. In these cases we are not talking about "accidental" felons of which there are many but the vast majority of the felons who deserve what they get are the ones who just don't care. IMO, they got what they asked for and deserved.
That being said, I continually see blanket statements on both sides about what makes a felon a felon where states even can't keep it straight. However, I believe that most felonies are done with calculated foresight and they just don't give a crap. So you know what? If they don't care, I don't care if they never get their rights back. In these cases we are not talking about "accidental" felons of which there are many but the vast majority of the felons who deserve what they get are the ones who just don't care. IMO, they got what they asked for and deserved.
That may be true, if there was a way for anyone to "give up" a "right".
larryh1108
Member
Pretty simple, really.
"Sir, if you rob that gas station and get caught you will lose many rights including the right to legally own a gun."
Guy, as he puts on his mask, "Sounds harsh but I need my fix. I'll worry about that if I get caught".
deadin
Member
Which is probably he least important right to the perp as he probably already can't legally own a gun....
Weapons violations are non violent, yes?
What I was getting at was that there is no provision in the Constitution for removing Constitutional rights.
For that reason, gun people argue that those rights can't be infringed. But if you accept that the government can take away rights, then you are acknowledging that those rights are infringeable because the government can regulate the BoR.
larryh1108
Member
Preamble:
I don't know about you, but punishment for crimes against others seems to be all about taking away one's rights. There are penalties for crimes to "establish justice".
larryh1108
Member
As with many other examples, it depends.
A gang banger carrying a Glock after his prison release, weapons violation, non-violent, deserves to go back to prison. Your example of a guy getting busted for carrying a 2.5" utility knife in his car on a college campus, non-violent and should not be punishable. As has been stated many times here by many people, it depends on the circumstances and there should be a process for everyone to petition to get their rights back. There is no blanket statement for either answer, on either side.
You can say it shouldn't be punishable, but it is in fact a felony and people are in fact hit with felony charges for it. So a lot of the responses to this thread would bar these people from firearms for the rest of their life.
Having to petition to get the Rights back and thinking that makes it okay to take so many people's Rights away is wrong and does not work. People may need those Rights in the interim and it is dead wrong to be forced to petition the government in order to have your Rights recognized.
larryh1108
Member
You are right. Then I guess they should just accept the law and never get their rights back. Why bother? Right? They are convicted felons. It's the law itself that put them in that place. Fair or not fair it is the system in place. If they feel they should not have to petition the courts to get their rights back then they can just accept it and move on. They have the choice of not doing a thing if they so choose. If it was me, I'd do whatever that was needed to at least try to get them back. If you want something bad enough you'll do what is necessary to get it. If you don't think you need to go thru the process and choose to have a firearm, even though it's illegal, then you risk going back to prison as a repeat offender. I like option A better.
And the "insure domestic tranquility" part should be good enough for banning AR15s, right?
larryh1108
Member
Hey, if you think so then that's your right.
If someone illegally shoots someone with an AR15 then he should lose his rights to own one. However, if you wish to ban AR15s to insure domestic tranquility then there are some boards who will welcome your opinion.
I know I didn't say that and the quote of the preamble is just that, the wording of the preamble. I didn't make that up either which you seem to do so well, putting words into other's mouths.
We have already covered this and I already explained why your reasoning fails.
And no, saying "if you want something bad enough you'll do what is necessary to get it" IS NOT justification for taking people's Rights and expecting them to petition the government to get them back.
alsaqr
Member
It was about much more than Winchester. Felons with their gun rights restored went on to commit new crimes.
https://vpc.org/studies/felons.htm
BTW: Alan Gottlieb was convicted of federal income tax evasion. His gun rights were restored under the program.
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larryh1108
Member
You are right again!
The simple solution is to just not be a felon. Period.
No loss of rights.
No petitioning to get your rights back.
Don't be "that guy" who just made a bad choice when he was 18.
I'd bet 98% of the posters here don't have a felony conviction. I guess it is
possible, huh? Yes, there are some bad laws but I'd bet that in the total picture, the felons that get caught did not get caught the first time they went awry. They got caught and part of the sentence is losing their rights. If they don't want to lose their rights then don't become a felon and I'm tired of hearing how we all commit 10 felonies a day. Too bad. If we are all that irresponsible then we should have been caught by now or will be caught in the future and we will lose our rights because that is what happens.
If all you stand on is your state's law of a 2.5" utility knife then I guess you can't have one on campus. Simple! If it's a felony, don't do it. It's not rocket science. If you don't think the law is right or fair then do something about it at the state level. If you want to thumb your nose at the law and carry a 2.51" knife onto a school campus then you are risking your right to own a firearm. Simple, huh?
P5 Guy
Member
I committed a felony today. I cut across an empty lot that was designated a construction area. I did not notice the sign until I got to the sidewalk at the other side of the lot. See how easy this is to become a felon? I had crossed this lot many times before the signage went up.
zxcvbob
Member
RX-79G said:
I'm just glad that I'm not the only one who sees it. It is the same mentality as blue-and-walnut shotgunners (BTW, I like blue and walnut) being in favor of banning AR's and semiauto handguns because they think it doesn't affect them because they don't like AR's and handguns anyway.
"Rights for me, but not for thee"
Their fine Browning shotguns are actually the *least* protected under the 2nd Amendment (see United States v. Miller, 1939) Any time anyone's rights are infringed, it affects all of us because it sets a precedent and then creeping incrementalism will push it a little farther which then sets a new precedent.It isn't that simple. Period.
I bet that 98% of the posters without a felony conviction have committed a felony.
So now it's okay to commit felonies if you get away with it?
Another GA example, if you had a license to carry a handgun and you walked down a public sidewalk some years ago, you may have committed a felony if you walked within a reasonable distance of a bus stop.
deadin
Member
Maybe the simplest solution would be to just get rid of the Second Amendment 
How would you like them apples????
How would you like them apples????
If people that say they support the Second Amendment, like Larry, are okay cooking up exceptions to it whenever convenient, then we are doing away with the Second Amendment.
You simply can't say that a right is "uninfringeable" and then promptly infringe it based on a philosophical preamble. Felons don't lose their right to due process - what makes the 2A so much less of a right than the rest?
You simply can't say that a right is "uninfringeable" and then promptly infringe it based on a philosophical preamble. Felons don't lose their right to due process - what makes the 2A so much less of a right than the rest?
This whole idea of who can and can't have rights is not what the Founders intended. ALL Americans are entitled to the rights spelled out in the Bill of Rights, they didn't grant these rights, they merely echoed that these are God-given rights that cannot be taken away or denied by ANY man or government or entity.
Any person or entity that denies any other American of ANY of the Bill of Rights is guilty of violating that person's civil rights, regardless of what they may or may not have done.
When we start cherry picking who can exercise a God-given right or not we are headed down the path of tyranny and selective right-giving and gives illegal authority to those that don't have the authority under our Constitution. This is not what the Founders intended and it is not the American way.
When a person goes to prison, they're rights are suspended while in prison, once the sentence is complete and that person is freed, they are part of the free American society again, until they perform a criminal act that lands them back in prison.
The proper action is that a felon gets shot and killed for doing things that he/she deserves to be shot and killed for.
This revolving door criminal justice system is a scam, it's a business nowadays, businesses can't prosper without repeat customers.
This denial of rights cannot happen, unless those revoking them consider themselves God, which they are not therefore do not have the authority.
Any person or entity that denies any other American of ANY of the Bill of Rights is guilty of violating that person's civil rights, regardless of what they may or may not have done.
When we start cherry picking who can exercise a God-given right or not we are headed down the path of tyranny and selective right-giving and gives illegal authority to those that don't have the authority under our Constitution. This is not what the Founders intended and it is not the American way.
When a person goes to prison, they're rights are suspended while in prison, once the sentence is complete and that person is freed, they are part of the free American society again, until they perform a criminal act that lands them back in prison.
The proper action is that a felon gets shot and killed for doing things that he/she deserves to be shot and killed for.
This revolving door criminal justice system is a scam, it's a business nowadays, businesses can't prosper without repeat customers.
This denial of rights cannot happen, unless those revoking them consider themselves God, which they are not therefore do not have the authority.
larryh1108
Member
Yeah, uh huh. Prohibiting a violent felon from being able to legally own a firearm is convenient. I sometimes wonder why some people just don't get it. But that's ok, you can support gang bangers legally owning a firearm because you don't want to conveniently take away their rights and I'll go right on believing that a violent felon should never have their rights restored because they gave them up when they pistol whipped grandma for her SS check. Now don't come back and say that you don't want THAT felon to legally have a gun because you are now making exceptions when you say no exceptions. You can support thugs and I'll continue to support justice.
Their due process is their trial and if found guilty of a felony, they lose their 2nd amendment rights. It's pretty clear cut. If you'd like I'll provide links showing how this works. That's part of the penalty for being a thug. Very simple to understand. They have the right until they give up their right when they are found guilty of a felony. Very straight forward and easy to understand.
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larryh1108
Member
wow, just wow.
Let's see, you shoot a cop. You took away his civil rights along with his life. We can't take away any of your civil rights because it isn't right?
wow, just wow.
I think I'll just walk away from this conversation. No point in trying to have a debate with some people who just take your breath away.
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