Kingpin, thank you - that is IT!! I must wear Loyd Christmas's Orange 70's ruffle tuxedo with top hot. That's absolutely perfect, as I won't need to wear any hunter orange on top of it! This shall be known as the Loyd Christmas deer (and yes it will be a remedial inside the orange suit). While I completely agree with that sentiment in general, it all depends upon the range, range, range. The .38 snubnosed (that I am practiced with) may very well be unethical to try to shoot a deer at 30 yards, 27 yards, 25, 22, 20, 18, 15, 14, 13, 12, and 11 yards. But at *some* point, it's just NOT unethical any longer. If I get close enough, I can hit the heart or spine with a .38 special. I would definitely not take a shot past 8 or 10 yards with this gun. Ideally, I'd get in a stand right over a trail and shoot it in the spine at 1 yard (plus the 10 feet down). Or get in a blind and shoot it at 5 yards broadside into the heart. Believe me, I'm not gonna do it if it's not a very very short, clean ethical shot. But a .38 has enough power to kill cleanly one of these 70-80 lb does around here. I will probably have both a 6" .357 magnum (or a 5" .45 colt), AND the .38 special snubbie. If the deer comes in at 15 or 20 yards, or 30 even, then I'll use the longer bbl gun. Close range, the snubbie. And, not only will this end the "which .300 buttstomper" debate, and the "which ultimate camo pattern" debate, it will also end the "which ultra premium ballistic silvertip nickelplated partition bonded titanium explosive platinum core ammo" question as well.