Should I Get a Mini 14?

[drobs]

Couple of my fun guns...

7.62x39 rifles - 4 of which (Romanians) I built myself from kits. Few 10 years ago, using the home build on the far right, I shot a 2 inch 100yd 3 shot group.


Serbian M92 AK Pistol. The last year I was in Baghdad (2011ish) before the military had pulled out, the Ugandan SOC guards had the full auto version of this firearm. I wanted one. When they became readily available and affordable I snagged one plus added all the wingdings and knickknacks.


M1A Scout. This is my 2nd M1A. I had a full length previously. I like the size of this one better. Easier to get in and out of my pickup with it.

 

[briansmithwins]

Got out and shot the Mini-14 (582 series) for group size yesterday. Ammo used was 55gr GECO FMJs, which have proven to be very accurate in pretty much everything I own.

I had some troubling results, the worst being that I saw a ~8MOA shift in POI down from cold to hot. After letting the rifle get cold I shot another group of 10 rounds, with the resulting 4.8MOA group below.

Obviously, the huge shift in POI isn't acceptable, the problem is in identifying the cause. My first suspect is that the Ultimak railed top cover is binding and/or preventing the barrel from expanding w/o being bent. I'm planning on pulling the rail off and returning to OEM. I'm also going to mount an optic on the receiver to eliminate my 2nd suspicion, that the sights shifted.

Pic of the target and results below. This was shot on a known distance 200 yard range with calm winds using Tech Sights irons.



BSW

 

[MachIVshooter]

Got out and shot the Mini-14 (582 series) for group size yesterday. Ammo used was 55gr GECO FMJs, which have proven to be very accurate in pretty much everything I own.

I had some troubling results, the worst being that I saw a ~8MOA shift in POI down from cold to hot. After letting the rifle get cold I shot another group of 10 rounds, with the resulting 4.8MOA group below.

Obviously, the huge shift in POI isn't acceptable, the problem is in identifying the cause. My first suspect is that the Ultimak railed top cover is binding and/or preventing the barrel from expanding w/o being bent. I'm planning on pulling the rail off and returning to OEM. I'm also going to mount an optic on the receiver to eliminate my 2nd suspicion, that the sights shifted.

Pic of the target and results below. This was shot on a known distance 200 yard range with calm winds using Tech Sights irons.

View attachment 762860

BSW

They're notoriously inaccurate, but even at that, 5 MOA and 8 MOA POI shift is rather extreme.

The 196 series stainless ranch rifle I had was 3-4 MOA stock with a similar POI shift from cold to hot. Chopping the barrel to 14" helped immensely, although it still ran about 2.5 MOA @ 100 yards, but with only about 1 MOA POI shift.

Of course, every AR carbine I have runs 1-1.5 MOA with virtually no POI shift....

 

[briansmithwins]

Yeah, ARs are silly easy to get accurate to the point where shooter ability and how good your ammo is becomes significant.

But ARs are boring...

BSW

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Got out and shot the Mini-14 (582 series) for group size yesterday. Ammo used was 55gr GECO FMJs, which have proven to be very accurate in pretty much everything I own.

I had some troubling results, the worst being that I saw a ~8MOA shift in POI down from cold to hot. After letting the rifle get cold I shot another group of 10 rounds, with the resulting 4.8MOA group below.

Obviously, the huge shift in POI isn't acceptable, the problem is in identifying the cause. My first suspect is that the Ultimak railed top cover is binding and/or preventing the barrel from expanding w/o being bent. I'm planning on pulling the rail off and returning to OEM. I'm also going to mount an optic on the receiver to eliminate my 2nd suspicion, that the sights shifted.

Pic of the target and results below. This was shot on a known distance 200 yard range with calm winds using Tech Sights irons.

View attachment 762860

BSW

IIRC, the accu-strut and similar devices are designed to remedy this exact problem. I have never experienced it with my Mini, but I was going to add a strut just cuz it ends up looking even more like a little M14....

 

[hdwhit]

Cooldill wrote:
...anything that is minute of bad guy at 300 yards or so is just fine for me.

I have (or had) two Mini-14s and two ARs. So, I'm not really a "fanboy" of either platform. If you like the looks and handling of the Mini-14 and understand what you are buying, then by all means I think it would be a fine addition to your collection.

The Mini-14 is a conventional, magazine fed carbine intended predominately for short-range work over its (depending on the model) generally well-designed iron sights. You can put an optic on it, but its configuration favors the irons. It is simple, reliable and easy to maintain. It is not a precision rifle, but mine have always been accurate enough to allow me to successfully make head-shots on nuisance animals such as muskrat and beaver from distances of up to 100 yards.

Neither my Mini nor my ARs have ever let me down and they have all been very satisfying.

 

[hdwhit]

NIGHTLORD40K wrote:
...but the scarcity of quality magazines and the rock-n-loc nature of them is a severe tactical disadvantage.

I've never had a problem locating reliable 3rd party magazine for my Mini-14s provided I was just willing to expend a little time looking. In fact, the only factory Ruger magazines I have are the 5 round ones that came with the rifles; everything else is 3rd party. And, yes, I did once get a batch of worthless magazines, but they went back to the seller. All the ones I have had since have functioned flawlessly.

In a home defense situation, if I expend 30 rounds of ammunition and still need to continue shooting, the difference of going through a well practiced magazine swap on a Mini versus an AR is probably going to be the least of my worries.

 

[hdwhit]

Cooldill wrote:
The fact that the rear sight is not range adjustable just seems cheap to me.

I zeroed my Mini-14 for 100 yards. At about 50 yards, it shoots something on the order of about 2 inches high and at 200 yards, about 4 inches low. Except when I'm trying to do a head shot on a nuisance animal - in which case I will generally wait until I can close the range to +/- 100 yards - it's like one of the old Kodak cameras, point and shoot.

I do the same thing with my ARs. I have to with the sight MagPul sight on my S&W Sport II because it also has no elevation adjustment. On the one with an A2 carrying handle/rear sight, the mechanism is so clunky that my son doesn't mess with it, he just points and shoots.

 

[Paladin7]

If you want a Mini get one. They are very reliable and it is an excellent platform with some limitations.

The Mini, as you are probably well aware, was designed to be a reliable "ranch" rifle (I'm not referring to the standard model vs the ranch rifle model)...i.e. a rifle that is compact enough so you can easily have it stowed in a cabin, ATV, or truck, to use for targets of opportunity, as in dispatching varmints or plinking.

If you want one for home defense, I hope you live in a place where the houses are not too close together and you know what those rounds will do in terms of penetration. That is the first concern I would have, especially in regards to home defense with a rifle. The second, as previously mentioned, is the issue with rock and locking the magazine, vs the AR Platform where you insert the mag straight into the rifle. Big difference when the chips are down.

Ultimately, they are well designed, strong and handy rifles with mediocre accuracy, which your target illustrates.

If you like the Mini, get one. It is a fun gun, great design, very reliable, and something you will enjoy within its design parameters.

 

[Kame B.]

The second, as previously mentioned, is the issue with rock and locking the magazine, vs the AR Platform where you insert the mag straight into the rifle. Big difference when the chips are down.

Ultimately, they are well designed, strong and handy rifles with mediocre accuracy, which your target illustrates.

Man, I love the mediocre accuracy comments from everyone here, because somehow I can hit what ever I'm pointing at with my Mini 14. Kinda makes this average shooter feel like a pro

And how are Mag changes slower for a Mini 14, ever heard "practice make perfect?" These guys don't seem to have a problem:




or you can do what this guy did, and change a few parts to make it even faster:


Look, I'm just some dumb hick from Mississippi that got a Mini 14 to work for me. I've been hunting and bagging hogs with it for 22 years and has never let me down. All the negative comments about the Mini 14 is nothing more than AR15 fanboy trash talk. All mouth no substance.

 

[flashhole]

Good post Kame B. - Personally, I just ignore the trash talk and I share your sentiments on the Mini. If the trash talkers could say ... here's my design that I build and market and here are the comparative differences that make mine better it would be acceptable. As it is they just take joy in running something down since they have no particular talent of their own. I see it a lot with Lee reloading equipment too. Pretty sad if that is their way of being. Fortunately they are not hard to ignore. Thanks for sharing the videos.

 

[briansmithwins]

After removing the Ultimak railed top cover I took the Mini-14 back out Friday. The results weren't that different from Wednesday, with the best group* being 4.6MOA.



Things I want to try next:
1) Get the aperture inserts from Techsight to clean up my sight picture.
2) Mount a magnified optic to the receiver to get a better idea of what the rifle is capable of when it ins't limited by my eyesight.
3) Test for POI shifting after 1 and 2.

Edit to add: I did have one stoppage Friday, a FTEject. This is troubling since this rifle has been back to Ruger 2x already for that problem. Each time it does back the interval between stoppages gets better, but I'm still not 100% positive that the underlying problem has been fixed.



BSW

*I shot groups 1,2, and 3 before checking POI. Group 4 was shot after adjusting the rear sight up 2 clicks. Group 5 was shot with IWI 77gr OTM with decent elevation but with POI shifted left 7.25".

 

[double bogey]

Had a couple 20 years ago, standard, and ranch, wasn't satisfied with minute of pie plate at 50 yds, they had to go.

 

[Kame B.]

Had a couple 20 years ago, standard, and ranch, wasn't satisfied with minute of pie plate at 50 yds, they had to go.

This is what I'm talking about right here. Even the old ones did a hell of a lot better than minute on pie plate at 50 yards. Seriously, 50 yards? Statements like this make it really hard for me to believe people even owned a Mini 14 and tried to work with it. I have two 188 series Mini 14's made in 1995, and they are better than minute of pie plate at 50. One I put a custom target barrel on so it doesn't count, but my other other one with a 16 inch skinny barrel and a cheap Choate bird cage can hit anything I point it at. Here is proof:

Here is another just to prove it's not a fluke:

Oh, and a MOA test video just for good measure:


Come on guys, the accuracy is not that bad, even after a hot barrel. I think yall might be going a little over board with this issue. On average they are a 2MOA rifle but can be tuned to be better with the proper mods, at least bed the receiver, and get a trigger job if you want to get close to MOA accurate. I'll admit this, the trigger on the Mini sucks, but thank god for Brimstone Gunsmiths. And if you guys would like to take it a step further there is always the "Harris Mod" http://www.grantcunningham.com/2012/02/ed-harris-my-observations-on-the-ruger-mini-14/

 

[briansmithwins]

From the link above:

To be COMPLETELY honest I was disappointed with its accuracy when compared to the M16A1 and A2 rifles, with which I am very familiar. The Mini 14 gives reasonable performance for an American-made rifle in its price range, and is safe, serviceable and reliable. It just isn’t all that accurate. You can find individual rifles which shoot well, but these are statistical aberrations.

We tried to test a large enough sample of rifles to pick “good” ones, then painstakingly took them apart and gaged every part to see if we could tweak tolerances or make design changes which would significantly improve accuracy without increasing production cost. It couldn’t be done. We did learn a few things, however.

The long run average group size for standard Mini-14 rifles fired from a test stand is about 4-5″ for ten-shot groups with M193 or M855 ammunition of “average” quality, producing an acceptance Mean Radius of 1.6-1.6″ at 200 yds from a test barrel. The M16A1 or A2 do this at 200 yards from a machine rest. I believe the biggest factor in Mini-14 accuracy is irregular contact between the gas block and the face of the slideblock, welded to the slide handle (aka operating rod).

BSW

 

[Paladin7]

Kame B... it's best to always step back and have perspective... no one was trash talking the Mini. I suggested the OP buy it, and I like the gun a lot, within its design parameters. The best way not to be disappointed in a firearm, is to understand its purpose and not to expect it to be something it is not.

 

[Kame B.]

Kame B... it's best to always step back and have perspective... no one was trash talking the Mini. I suggested the OP buy it, and I like the gun a lot, within its design parameters. The best way not to be disappointed in a firearm, is to understand its purpose and not to expect it to be something it is not.

Yeah I always take a step back, thats why I worded my statement to include all, not just you. I just used your quote as an example. It's good to take that step, even for oneself

 

[drobs]

Not sure I would buy another used Mini-14 after the poor result I had with 1 in the 1990's but there are a couple used Tacticals on Gunbroker at reasonable prices.


$479 - not sure I like that finish wear on the bolt.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/696906737
$499 - picture 5 concerns me - this gun has been run hot and fast.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/696520534
$557 - inexpensive scope but nice condition otherwise.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/696854428

Not Tactical but nice condition $405 and bidding:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/695568946
Not a Tactical, NIB - $440 and bidding.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/692131019

 

[ECVMatt]

I voted yes. I have had several Minis over the years and none have been minute of pie plate. I also worked on a gun store for a few years and we sold tons of Minis. They are very reliable and reasonably accurate. Good mags have been available for quite some time. I prefer the safety on the Mini over the AR. I like how it locks the hammer down, is intuitive, and ambidextrous. I currently have a 580 series Mini and it's a very good gun. My son prefers it to the AR and we shoot it often. My eyes are going, so I have a 1.5 x 5 Leopold on it and can hit any reasonable target out to 300 yards at will. Yes my AR's are more accurate, but I will always have a place for the Mini as well. If you want one get it and enjoy!

 

[Chuck R.]

Well, I vote AR.

Owned a Mini-14 back in the 80s...as other's pointed out the accuracy is "ok" at best. It really depends on what the intend use is, IMHO for a serious HD gun the ARs benefits outweigh the Minis neatness or uniqueness. The AR is far more modular; easier for the owner to work on, parts are everywhere, easier to change out triggers, barrels etc. Magazines are everywhere. Also the AR15 provided you get a 1:7 or 1:8" barrel will handle the heavier bullets, the mini comes with a 1:9". Then there's the training aspect. A couple years ago I took a carbine class where there was a Mini-14 present (I've taken 4 carbine classes, witnessed 1 Mini-14), the guy did "OK" and I didn't see any issues with the carbine. But IMHO the guy didn't get the full value of the class; the majority of the instructors TTPs , tricks, etc. where geared towards the AR15.

When you compare the specs (just using the LE6920 as an example):

Weight: Ruger: 6.7LBs Colt LE 6920: 6.29lbs
OAL: Ruger 36.75" Colt 35.5" (Extended)

The AR in M4gery configuration is actually shorter and lighter than the Mini.

So IF the OP wants a "tool" I'd recommend an AR, want to be "different" or buy a defensive weapon because of it's looks, or have some "A Team" thing going, get the Mini-14.

Chuck

 

[Legionnaire]

Had a Mini years ago. I tinkered with it a lot, but could never get it shooting better than 3-4 MOA, which I didn't find acceptable. And the magazines were finicky; Ruger mags worked but were cost prohibitive, and other brands didn't work reliably. I sold it to fund an AR and have never looked back. I wanted to like the Mini, but have not regretted selling it. YMMV.

 

[Coyote44]

I have one in the 300 Blackout....so far .....so good.

 

[Prijador]

Whoa, 300 Blackout, very interesting.

Dumb question: why not a Mini-30?

 

[kwg020]

Got out and shot the Mini-14 (582 series) for group size yesterday. Ammo used was 55gr GECO FMJs, which have proven to be very accurate in pretty much everything I own.

I had some troubling results, the worst being that I saw a ~8MOA shift in POI down from cold to hot. After letting the rifle get cold I shot another group of 10 rounds, with the resulting 4.8MOA group below.

Obviously, the huge shift in POI isn't acceptable, the problem is in identifying the cause. My first suspect is that the Ultimak railed top cover is binding and/or preventing the barrel from expanding w/o being bent. I'm planning on pulling the rail off and returning to OEM. I'm also going to mount an optic on the receiver to eliminate my 2nd suspicion, that the sights shifted.

Pic of the target and results below. This was shot on a known distance 200 yard range with calm winds using Tech Sights irons.

View attachment 762860

BSW

Come over to Perfect Union and we can help you out with lots of Mini 14 input. Look for the Mini 14 forum.
http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/

 

[loose noose]

I've got one I bought back around '94-95 and is a 186 series, did quite a few modifications on it such as a trigger job, flash suppressor, Accu-Strut, and a n oversized Hogue stock with bedding. This rifle will shoot 1" groups at 100 yards (5 shots 62 grain settled on H4198) with hand loaded ammo that it likes, which believe me took a lot of shooting and mixing. However at 200 yards it opens up to about 2.5" and at 300 yards to right at 4"s.. I've shot 10" steel targets all day long at 500 yards with it. I've got mostly all Ruger 20 round mags, with a couple of Ruger Blems in 20 round and some after market 30 rounds that will run thru it as long as you don't keep them loaded much over night. Placed a little inexpensive Vortex 2X7 scope on it and it is a fine coyote rifle.