Should S&W bring back 3rd gen pistols?

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Naw, they are selling every M&P 3.4.2CEZPROetc they can mold and MIM. We are lucky they are still making revolvers (occasionally) for us enthusiasts.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I voted No because what S&W really needs to concentrate on is innovation. A 4th Gen series of all-metal 9/40/45/10 with features geared towards the sport market instead of LE would be a great addition but bringing back the massive Albatross collection of heavy holster gear? No thanks. CZ and Tanfoglio are not selling the same Soviet-era milspec 75’s they came to market with in the 80’s, they’re making guns for civilian competition shooters.
A stainless and alloy pistol setup for optics, various springs for different types of loads, interchangeable grip sections, compensators, skeletonized slides, adjustable triggers and fire-control parts… a new generation of weapons. That would sell.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Nobody likes them to begin with? They were enormously popular among police departments and civilians

Before Glock and others destroyed them, yes. They were popular as a replacer for a 6 shot wheelgun... and some departments didn't even like them enough to do that. Ive not heard a single officer.. even online.... that wished to go back to the Smith one they went to anything else. Even equally heavy guns like Sig and Beretta da/sa. You like them. I like them. But just like the Ruger p- series that I liked, they were never liked by anyone. Just a lack of options or forced on departments.

People didn't "like" using corn cob or a tow rag once better things came along. I don't intend on bringing those back either.

So many good guns that were liked have gone away that the clunky old Smith would be a long way down my list. 94 winchester, 12 winchester, Marlin 39, even a smith revolver without the lock. I can't imagine that a gun they had to pretty much give away to get it carried is on their list of things to make today. If not for the awb I don't even think the civilian love for the third gen would be so high. Accepting a 10-14 rd gun wasn't so hard when we had a 10rd limit for anything. Lol

I won't part with my p- series rugers, USP, Beretta 92/96, hammer fired smith's, or p series sig.... but they are dying or dead and for pretty good reason imo.

 

[Rexster]

Faithful design copies? I would say no. The internal parts are not what I think of as being 21st-Century state of the art.

A Fourth Generation of DA/SA, with similar ergonomics, and simplified parts lists? Yes, please!

And, a hearty “AMEN” to the post that requested resumption of magazine production, for the Third-Generation pistols. Magazines are consumable items.

 

[crestoncowboy]

A Fourth Generation of DA/SA, with similar ergonomics, and simplified parts lists? Yes, please!

Id buy some... but again the market is pretty clear. Sig and hk have tried poly frame hammer guns, aluminum frames.... no matter. For professional use they all want a light striker. GLOCK, M&P, 320 etc . For ease of training and for armorer duty. For nostalgia and paper punching we love the hammer guns.

 

[peacebutready]

If it's just a plain jane 3rd gen, nope. But if they built an updated version of the performance center models, then yeah. But then again I bought a metal competitor M&P and that was a major disappointment.

And for those saying it would be too costly, well Dan Wesson is selling every $2K DWX they make.

Yes but how many is Dan Wesson selling? You can make more money selling 50,000 M&Ps or Glock 19s at $500 a pop than 2000 DWX.

Yes. I read it costs Glock about $75 to make one. That means a huge profit margin.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

Yes but how many is Dan Wesson selling? You can make more money selling 50,000 M&Ps or Glock 19s at $500 a pop than 2000 DWX.

But yet in a sea of $400 Turkish 1911s, Dan Wesson is flourishing selling 2000 dollar 1911s.

An updated version of the coveted PC models geared towards competition would sell. Not every gun made needs LE support.

 

[crestoncowboy]

But yet in a sea of $400 Turkish 1911s, Dan Wesson is flourishing selling 2000 dollar 1911s.

An updated version of the coveted PC models geared towards competition would sell. Not every gun made needs LE support.

Dan Wesson went out trying. Cz just sells the name. Same for colt. Nobody would know if they were made of junk because nobody actually shoots them. You can mark up and sell colt and dan Wesson, wrong or right they were always considered premium . Smith's name (or saf-t or whatever they go by now) is worth far less. You have to mass market or you have to sell something that does things others don't..... Smith does nothing premium (and nothing terrible) , so they try mass market.

You can only sell so many of those guns . P210/usp etc. Sure a handful of them would sell. Id buy. But they were dumped by every agency and pretty much all concealed or open carriers for reason. They weren't terribly expensive and they didn't lose parts support until 2010 or so... so that wasn't the reason. They just don't do anything that the lighter guns don't do and better.recoil and aim have both had third gen smith's used for a year. Can't give them away. Lol

And they had the dumbest naming system in the history of guns..... must have borrowed from BMW or Mercedes. Lol

 

[sigarms228]

I remember when SIG resurrected the P225 a few years back because there was supposedly so much demand for it from online enthusiasts and such. Problem is hardly anyone actually bought the new P225 and before long it was discontinued. Walther made the steel frame PPQ and when word got out of it there was huge excitement among Walther fans, until they saw the price tag and rumors are it is being discontinued also.

 

[crestoncowboy]

I remember when SIG resurrected the P225 a few years back because there was supposedly so much demand for it from online enthusiasts and such. Problem is hardly anyone actually bought the new P225 and before long it was discontinued. Walther made the steel frame PPQ and when word got out of it there was huge excitement among Walther fans, until they saw the price tag and rumors are it is being discontinued also.

Could do limited runs like the 210 or usp as well. But still the guns weren't anything near as loved as those. They sold more.... but pretty much any time you hear anyone who was issues one its "thank God we went to the xxxx" lol . I get mine out and shoot a can or a box and I clean them well and put them up. Lol.

Then I put my Glock on and go fence or to town. Lol

 

[Mosin77]

I’d say No. About 5 people would buy one new. On the other hand if they took some of the best features of their old metal guns, rolled them into a new design with a STEEL frame (not alloy) that could easily become popular for recreational, competition, range, or home defense use.

 

[GRIZ22]

But yet in a sea of $400 Turkish 1911s, Dan Wesson is flourishing selling 2000 dollar 1911s.

An updated version of the coveted PC models geared towards competition would sell. Not every gun made needs LE support.

They're still selling $125,000 cars in a sea of $25,000 cars. Same with $2000 1911's vs $400 1911s. All do basically the same thing but in different ways.

 

[peacebutready]

I’d say No. About 5 people would buy one new. On the other hand if they took some of the best features of their old metal guns, rolled them into a new design with a STEEL frame (not alloy) that could easily become popular for recreational, competition, range, or home defense use.

Especially if something like that was in 10mm. The weight would soak up recoil.

CZ75s in 9mm are so soft shooting.

 

[Ks5shooter]

No ,there are enough used to be had and they are tanks.

 

[Homerboy]

Before Glock and others destroyed them, yes. They were popular as a replacer for a 6 shot wheelgun... and some departments didn't even like them enough to do that. Ive not heard a single officer.. even online.... that wished to go back to the Smith one they went to anything else. Even equally heavy guns like Sig and Beretta da/sa. You like them. I like them. But just like the Ruger p- series that I liked, they were never liked by anyone. Just a lack of options or forced on departments.

People didn't "like" using corn cob or a tow rag once better things came along. I don't intend on bringing those back either.

So many good guns that were liked have gone away that the clunky old Smith would be a long way down my list. 94 winchester, 12 winchester, Marlin 39, even a smith revolver without the lock. I can't imagine that a gun they had to pretty much give away to get it carried is on their list of things to make today. If not for the awb I don't even think the civilian love for the third gen would be so high. Accepting a 10-14 rd gun wasn't so hard when we had a 10rd limit for anything. Lol

I won't part with my p- series rugers, USP, Beretta 92/96, hammer fired smith's, or p series sig.... but they are dying or dead and for pretty good reason imo.

Glock didn’t destroy anything. They gave guns away to departments and got their foot in the door. There are still thousands of NYPD officers carrying the 5946. I brought my 28 year old NYPD 5946 to the police range last year for a look under the hood. They replaced a few springs and handed it back to me for another 28 years.

Glocks are good guns and I have several, but police departments arm their officers with what is most cost effective, and a plastic Glock is cheaper now, then, and forever. The only reason S&W stopped making them is it is far cheaper to make M&P pistols. Great guns, too. I have several. Other than weight due to the metal vs. plastic, Glock doesn’t do anything better than Smith, despite what Glock fanboys will say. And by the way, they weren’t forced on officers. We had an option of the 5946, the Glock 19, and an Sig 226. Many thousands of cops chose the 5946, even when we had to pay for our own guns and the 5946 was 50% more expensive. LAPD authorized (still do, I am almost certain) the 5906, 4506, and 3913. You can go to YouTube and watch 3rd Gen guns that load, chamber, and extract fired casings. I’m talking slip a spent casing you just picked out of the dirt into a magazine, and start firing. When you get the click that is the spent casing that the slide stripped out of the magazine and slipped in into the barrel. Show me a Glock that can do that.

 

[Homerboy]

Sorry. Double post.

 

[peacebutready]

Glock didn’t destroy anything. They gave guns away to departments and got their foot in the door. There are still thousands of NYPD officers carrying the 5946. I brought my 28 year old NYPD 5946 to the police range last year for a look under the hood. They replaced a few springs and handed it back to me for another 28 years.

Glocks are good guns and I have several, but police departments arm their officers with what is most cost effective, and a plastic Glock is cheaper now, then, and forever. The only reason S&W stopped making them is it is far cheaper to make M&P pistols. Great guns, too. I have several. Other than weight due to the metal vs. plastic, Glock doesn’t do anything better than Smith, despite what Glock fanboys will say. And by the way, they weren’t forced on officers. We had an option of the 5946, the Glock 19, and an Sig 226. Many thousands of cops chose the 5946, even when we had to pay for our own guns and the 5946 was 50% more expensive. LAPD authorized (still do, I am almost certain) the 5906, 4506, and 3913. You can go to YouTube and watch 3rd Gen guns that load, chamber, and extract fired casings. I’m talking slip a spent casing you just picked out of the dirt into a magazine, and start firing. When you get the click that is the spent casing that the slide stripped out of the magazine and slipped in into the barrel. Show me a Glock that can do that.

The 5946 is heavy due to being regular steel instead of aluminum. Also, for the NYPD they are DAO. IIRC, the Sig 226 has an aluminum frame, which makes it lighter. I don't know if the NYPD Sigs are DAO.

 

[Homerboy]

The 5946 is heavy due to being regular steel instead of aluminum. Also, for the NYPD they are DAO. IIRC, the Sig 226 has an aluminum frame, which makes it lighter. I don't know if the NYPD Sigs are DAO.

I know. The NYPD SIG was always DAO. The steel 5946 was heavier, but I never noticed it in a gun belt. Never carried it off duty. Sometimes while working plain clothes. The off duty options (3953 TSW, DAO 3914) were aluminum frame and light. The 7 round 3953 is very easy to conceal.

 

[peacebutready]

I know. The NYPD SIG was always DAO. The steel 5946 was heavier, but I never noticed it in a gun belt. Never carried it off duty. Sometimes while working plain clothes. The off duty options (3953 TSW, DAO 3914) were aluminum frame and light. The 7 round 3953 is very easy to conceal.

Was it possible for an officer, or at least an plain clothes officer to get permission for either DA/SA or SAO?

 

[tarosean]

An updated version of the coveted PC models geared towards competition would sell.

Competition it would be a dinosaur with no redeeming qualities except for weight. Almosst no parts availability, mag availability, crappy triggers, all that combined doesnt exactly equate to "winning on Sunday and selling on Monday".
A 645 was my first handgun so I do have soft spot for them even though I have sold off all 1-2-3 gen S&W's.
Its kind of like my wifes 65 Mustang a timeless classic. However, a modern day Honda Civic can blow its doors off in competition. Technology surpassed it decades ago.

 

[Homerboy]

Was it possible for an officer, or at least a plain clothes officer to get permission for either DA/SA or SAO?

Under covers could get permission to carry an unauthorized piece. Carrying a DAO Sig would mark you as a cop. Nothing heavy. No magnums or anything. But I’ve seen under covers with Walther PPK’s before. And traditional DA/SA guns. Glocks are far more common now than 20 years ago in the hands of perps so you could probably carry your own Glock now. Not so much back then.

 

[Old Dog]

As fond of the 3rd gen Smiths as I am, count me in as another firm "no" answer to OP's question.

Love the 3913/3914, 5906, 4006, 4506... but simply better options available in all those calibers and size pistols now. Way lighter, with far better factory night sights, ergonomics, sans the slide-mounted wrong-way safety, and with far, far superior triggers, either DA/SA, DAO, SAO or striker-fired.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I’ve got 2 Performance Center PPC-9’s, IDPA-5906, Super-9, and a garden variety 5906 with an LPA adjustable rear sight and a bit of tweaking.

I voted NO.

Unless they are the elite Performance Ctr. Format. The IDPA gun has the Briley spherical bushing, fitted Barsto barrel, on the heavier frame/slide. Novak rear sight replaced with an LPA adjustable rear. I’ve won MANY matches with it. They would be worth every penny S&W would want. (I special ordered it through Bangers distributor in ‘98. Cost then was $900.00 with transfer, sales tax and shipping. But was a fabulous investment. (As we’re all my high end S&W’s). Now it would probably be $2k+.

What I’d like now is a Performance Ctr. 5” Model 16 in .327FederalMag…
Something like this:

S & W Performance Center Pro Model 60 - 357 Mag - 3" Barrel - SHIPS FREE - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 991282251

Buy S & W Performance Center Pro Model 60 - 357 Mag - 3" Barrel - SHIPS FREE: GunBroker is the largest seller of Revolvers Pistols Guns & Firearms All: 991282251

www.gunbroker.com

Either a 6-shot J-frame, or K-frame.
But, I’d settle for a pencil barrel M16 “Classic” as it’s doable.
Until then, I’ll have to settle for this…. .32H&R Taurus.

 

[crestoncowboy]

I’ve got 2 Performance Center PPC-9’s, IDPA-5906, Super-9, and a garden variety 5906 with an LPA adjustable rear sight and a bit of tweaking.

I voted NO.

Unless they are the elite Performance Ctr. Format. The IDPA gun has the Briley spherical bushing, fitted Barsto barrel, on the heavier frame/slide. Novak rear sight replaced with an LPA adjustable rear. I’ve won MANY matches with it. They would be worth every penny S&W would want. (I special ordered it through Bangers distributor in ‘98. Cost then was $900.00 with transfer, sales tax and shipping. But was a fabulous investment. (As we’re all my high end S&W’s). Now it would probably be $2k+.

What I’d like now is a Performance Ctr. 5” Model 16 in .327FederalMag…
Something like this:

S & W Performance Center Pro Model 60 - 357 Mag - 3" Barrel - SHIPS FREE - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 991282251

Buy S & W Performance Center Pro Model 60 - 357 Mag - 3" Barrel - SHIPS FREE: GunBroker is the largest seller of Revolvers Pistols Guns & Firearms All: 991282251

www.gunbroker.com

Either a 6-shot J-frame, or K-frame.
But, I’d settle for a pencil barrel M16 “Classic” as it’s doable.
Until then, I’ll have to settle for this…. .32H&R Taurus.

I want a 329 pd-ish 22lr. 4 or 6 inch barrel air weight double Acton/ single action. My k frame 22s are so dang heavy I usually take a 22/45 or Glock 44. Lol

 

[actionexpress]

I voted No because what S&W really needs to concentrate on is innovation.

They have designed perhaps the best 5.7 pistol on the market with a uniquely designed action, a 9mm carbine that’s an improvement over its competitors, and perhaps the most popular pistol for older folks- the EZ and Equalizer. Heck even the CSX is a gun nobody saw coming, though they totally screwed up the trigger design. Seems like they’re innovating to me. Much more than others.

As for the 3rd gens and etc, no. They’d cost a fortune these days. The Turks might make a copy, they’ve seemed to have resurrected/copied a lot of different guns with no end in sight.