Should you ever admit you are carrying?

[45_auto]

I haven't bothered to read all the justifications and excuses for either viewpoint, but I will give you my perspective as a sheriff's deputy for 8 years:

You are MUCH better off telling a cop that you have a gun rather than taking the chance of him being surprised by discovering it himself.

For all you know you were stopped because you met the description of an armed robbery or murder suspect. Do you think that there is a possibility that the cop might be a little jumpy upon discovering a hidden gun, or perceiving that you are reaching for one?

Couple of videos here from police dash cams that show how a traffic stop can get interesting very quickly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkmYB07_e-o

 

[X-Rap]

To me it depends on where the gun is and where my documents are. On longer trips I keep my wallet out of my pocket and almost always carry my registration and insurance on the visor or roof console.
In short I don't want to chance opening the door and having a gun stuck in one of the pouches or reaching for a place the cop can't see. Put yourself in his shoes and it really becomes quite simple.

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[zxcvbob]

You are MUCH better off telling a cop that you have a gun rather than taking the chance of him being surprised by discovering it himself.

For all you know you were stopped because you met the description of an armed robbery or murder suspect. Do you think that there is a possibility that the cop might be a little jumpy upon discovering a hidden gun, or perceiving that you are reaching for one?

That's allegedly exactly what happened to Phliando (sp?) Castile because he did tell the cop.

 

[Warp]

That's allegedly exactly what happened to Phliando (sp?) Castile because he did tell the cop.

As alleged by whom?

 

[Sam1911]

Unfortunately I'm not sure we can really take any clear message away from Castile's case.

We don't -- and probably WON'T, ever -- really know what he did, what the officer really saw.

The officer could have made a grave mistake out of jumpiness and fear.

Or, the officer could have taken exactly the action his trainers and department would have instructed him to take, based on what he saw.

It is entirely possible that the officer said one thing and Castile heard one thing, and Castile did something -- all of them acting with proper intentions but saying/hearing/acting in ways that were just imprecise and in-cautious enough that they pushed a dangerous situation right into catastrophe.

We just don't know. Had he not informed, would the officer have seen the gun and shot him? Had he kept his hands on the dashboard (or wherever, visible) and said, "Officer, I don't want to reach for my waist because that's where my pistol is. How should I proceed?" we probably never would have heard his name and he'd be at just another day of work right now.

99% of time tiny imprecisions and miscommunications and misunderstandings have no consequences and we don't even notice them.

When there's a gun involved and a police officer in an enforcement situation, they are suddenly CRUCIALLY important. That's not wrong, or right. It just is.

A man is dead, and an officer may lose his job, could possibly even go to jail (though that seems very unlikely), and the nation reels and rocks, because of what looks like a horrible failure of communication of intent.

Be exceedingly careful and thoughtful when dealing with the police if you are armed (or any other time, really) and it is unlikely you'd end up in such a tragic situation.

 

[zxcvbob]

As alleged by whom?

that was the first narrative that came out; told by his girlfriend who was there at the time. AFAIK there are no competing theories yet, but the investigation is still young.

 

[Predator55]

I have no problem informing a police officer out of respect. I have my ccw license under my DL and hand both to them and I tell them I am a ccw holder. Il you don't have to tell but it shows up on their computer when they run your plate so why keep it quiet.

 

[yugorpk]

Il you don't have to tell but it shows up on their computer when they run your plate so why keep it quiet.

Because it has nothing to do with the traffic stop. If I get pulled over I expect it was because I was speeding etc. I expect a ticket. I hand the officer my paperwork and if he wishes to give me a ticket he can do so. I do not engage in small talk because I have the right to remain silent. I will exercise that right and I will not tell the officer anything other than "here is my driving related paperwork" . The fact that I may or not have a weapon in the car with me is not germane to the fact I have gone over the speed limit. If I lived in a state that required me to inform the officer I had a weapon I would do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mmcV6bHMWQ

 

[basicblur]

that was the first narrative that came out; told by his girlfriend who was there at the time.

I saw a blurb on the news last night where she's now telling a different tale.

I'm wondering now if this is another case of "Hands Up, Don't Shoot"?

I pay little attention to this stuff as I'm just waiting for this to sort itself out before I can truly tell what happened (if ever).

 

[X-Rap]

Never heard anything like the audio from that recording. Lady just speaking monotone while recording vide and little girl sitting quietly while the guy is blessing and the cop is freaking out.
Real strange IMO.

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[45_auto]

That's allegedly exactly what happened to Phliando (sp?) Castile because he did tell the cop.

If a cop with a gun on you tells you to put your hands up, then perceives that you are reaching for the gun in your lap, no matter what you've said or not said, don't be surprised if you get shot.

 

[Sam1911]

If a cop with a gun on you tells you to put your hands up, then perceives that you are reaching for the gun in your lap, no matter what you've said or not said, don't be surprised if you get shot.

Again, we DON'T know what the cop actually said or what the deceased actually did. Let's not make any claims or implications.

 

[azrocks]

I haven't bothered to read all the justifications and excuses for either viewpoint, but I will give you my perspective as a sheriff's deputy for 8 years:

You are MUCH better off telling a cop that you have a gun rather than taking the chance of him being surprised by discovering it himself.

For all you know you were stopped because you met the description of an armed robbery or murder suspect. Do you think that there is a possibility that the cop might be a little jumpy upon discovering a hidden gun, or perceiving that you are reaching for one?

Couple of videos here from police dash cams that show how a traffic stop can get interesting very quickly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkmYB07_e-o

And just the other day the wife had a career police officer tell her & the rest of the students in his class that he advises against notifying unless required to by law. His reasoning: Many police officers are not supportive or trusting of armed citizens. This is coming from a police officer in an extremely gun-friendly state. Granted, this is just one officer's opinion, but I have to assume he based this opinion on real-life interaction with other cops who feel as such.

As for being stopped by an officer because you match the description of a crime suspect, that alone is enough to make a cop jumpy. Stating you have a gun to someone who's already gone all tunnel-vision on you could be the spark that ignites a flame (as potentially happened in the Philando stop).

Personally, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. Every situation is different, as is the best course of action. I had a highway patrol officer chew me out for 5 minutes - literally screaming at me - for riding a motorcycle with 'bald tires'. It wasn't till he cooled down that I was able to drill into his head that my WEEK-OLD DOT-APPROVED track tires were perfectly legal, and didn't incorporate tread extending to the edge of the tire for a very good reason. Would I have told him I had a gun? Heck no. He was mentally unstable. Contrast that to two officers in prior years who I did tell out of courtesy - mainly because they presented themselves in a calm, professional manner.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

"If a cop with a gun on you tells you to put your hands up, then perceives that you are reaching for the gun in your lap..."

If, if, if...

The world is full of "ifs".


If you walk across the street, you might get hit by a car.

If you are walking while playing Pokémon Go, you might step off a pier into the water.

If you stand up too quickly, you might pass out.

If you take a walk, you might get mugged, shot, or stabbed.

If you take a walk with your concealed weapon, you might STILL get mugged, shot, or stabbed...and some of that might by a cop.


If, if, if...


Bottom line: use your head. Carrying a firearm is a big responsibility. Life is dangerous...act like it, especially when firearms are involved.

 

[X-Rap]

It's not a game, if there is s chance an officer that stopped you or perhaps a second follow on office on the other side of your vehicle could see I'd fess up ahead of time.
I'd also add the same if asked.

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[j1]

Yes I think that we should inform the officer and have our permit in our hand by the time he reaches us. Show him your permit and wait for instructions. I do not want him to be nervous. Keep your hands in plain sight.

 

[basicblur]

and have our permit in our hand by the time he reaches us

I'd rethink that one - they generally don't like to see movement in the vehicle as they're on the way to your door.

If you were a cop, as you walk up to the vehicle would you rather see:
1. Someone sitting perfectly still.
2. Lots of motions / gyrations as you dig out your wallet / DL / registration from the glove box, off your hip, etc.

Don't overthink this thing, and don't try to anticipate what the officer wants.
Just keep it simple without a lot of movement, and wait for his instructions.

 

[Warp]

I'd rethink that one - they generally don't like to see movement in the vehicle as they're on the way to your door.

If you were a cop, as you walk up to the vehicle would you rather see:
1. Someone sitting perfectly still.
2. Lots of motions / gyrations as you dig out your wallet / DL / registration from the glove box, off your hip, etc.

Don't overthink this thing, and don't try to anticipate what the officer wants.
Just keep it simple without a lot of movement, and wait for his instructions.

This is where it can vary. I certainly don't need "lots of motion" or any "gyrations" to retrieve my wallet from my right cargo pocket, and there is no way to see that movement from behind my vehicle or even beginning to approach my vehicle.

So when I get pulled over I have my wallet in my hand before the officer is out of the car.

However, if I had to do a lot of movement, gyrations, reaching into glove box, etc, I wouldn't.

 

[kkayser]

Totally disagree. The advice you received in ccw class was solid.
Your assertion is nonsensical. Nobody thinks like that. Do you see someone printing in a grocery store and start shooting at them because you think they can kill you? Of course not. So why would you assume cops think like that?

Solid advice (to inform a LEO) that you are carrying? No one thinks like that? Well how about the chief of police of Milwaukee Wisconsin. Here is a direct quote:

"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we’ll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it,” Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn.

I'm assuming that this quote also applies to concealed carry, why not? In fact, there are many more people allowed to open carry than there are allowed to conceal carry.

Why would anyone want to go through this, if they don't have to? Believe me, as someone who has experienced being "put on the ground," it is at best a painful experience. Some people have not survived it. To volunteer for this is the height of folly.

 

[Warp]

Solid advice (to inform a LEO) that you are carrying? No one thinks like that? Well how about the chief of police of Milwaukee Wisconsin. Here is a direct quote:

"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we’ll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it,” Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn.

I'm assuming that this quote also applies to concealed carry, why not? In fact, there are many more people allowed to open carry than there are allowed to conceal carry.

Why would anyone want to go through this, if they don't have to? Believe me, as someone who has experienced being "put on the ground," it is at best a painful experience. Some people have not survived it. To volunteer for this is the height of folly.

Have any lawful concealed carriers that informed officers they were carrying in Milwaukee been put on the ground? Any at all?

 

[Sam1911]

Chief Flynn is acting like a blowhard tyrant spewing hot air. The sort of behavior he claims he's telling his officers to apply will put a lot of taxpayer dollars into the hands of open carry advocates (some of) whom just love the opportunity to be a test case and hand someone like that their butt in court.

So you saw this guy with a gun, in a holster (slung, etc.) completely in accordance with our state's laws, and you tackled him and "put him on the ground" just to check and see if he was doing so illegally? Nope, that doesn't fly. But chiefs do like to talk...

 

[zxcvbob]

Solid advice (to inform a LEO) that you are carrying? No one thinks like that? Well how about the chief of police of Milwaukee Wisconsin. Here is a direct quote:

"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we’ll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it,” Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn.

I'm assuming that this quote also applies to concealed carry, why not? In fact, there are many more people allowed to open carry than there are allowed to conceal carry.

IMHO, the chief is an idiot; he's trying to start a war between the police and the sheriff's dept. Sheriff Clarke is very much pro-gun, and the city officials hate him for it.

He's also going to get a police officer killed someday when they try to illegally disarm a warrior (there aren't many warrior out there, I started to use the word "Ninja", but I bet there are a few)

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Solid advice (to inform a LEO) that you are carrying? No one thinks like that? Well how about the chief of police of Milwaukee Wisconsin. Here is a direct quote:

"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we’ll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it,” Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn.

I'm assuming that this quote also applies to concealed carry, why not? In fact, there are many more people allowed to open carry than there are allowed to conceal carry.

Why would anyone want to go through this, if they don't have to? Believe me, as someone who has experienced being "put on the ground," it is at best a painful experience. Some people have not survived it. To volunteer for this is the height of folly.

I'll say it again about Chief Flynn: Chief Flynn is an idiot, and a dangerously reckless one at that.

Using force to put "anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee" on the ground will eventually get people following the law needlessly hurt, possibly killed, and cost the city a ton of wasted tax payer money in court costs and possible settlements.

If I'm legally carrying my firearm in a non-threatening fashion (such as holstered) and in strict accordance with the state law and Chief Flynn's policy to his troops has them put me on the ground, you'd better believe I'll be talking with an attorney about a law suit. Especially since Chief Flynn was dumb enough to put that statement out on the media. And more especially if I were also to be on my own property, as the homeowner you previously cited.

 

[skoro]

Texas is a "duty to inform" state, where we're required to notify LEOs if we're carrying. That's accomplished by passing them the CHL along with DL if stopped.

 

[justice06rr]

It depends on who's asking.

I can tell trusted friend or significant other. Between me and a few of my good shooting buddies, we all know that we carry. Anyone else not a LEO is a no-no.